Friday, November 27, 1998 12:30:20 AM
GSBN Item
From: GSBN@...,Txinfinet Incoming
Subject: Digest for 11/26/98
To: GSBN
-> Post and Beam structural details
by M J Epko <duckchow@...>
-> Followup, and next TLS
by M J Epko <duckchow@...>
-> Straw-bale building in China
by "Lerner, Helmuth, McCandless" <options@...>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Nov 1998 01:33:24 -0600
From: M J Epko <duckchow@...>
Subject: Post and Beam structural details

Gavin Jolly is in New Zealand, and not on the GSBN. Please also respond to
him directly at <gavin@...> if you choose to help him out.

>From: "Gavin Jolly" <gavin@...>
>To: "John Straube (E-mail)" <JFSTRAUB@...>,
> "John Swearingen (E-mail)" <BALEHEAD@...>,
> "Jorg D. Ostrowski (E-mail)" <jdo@...>,
> "M J Epko (E-mail)" <duckchow@...>,
> "Strawbale Construction (E-mail)" <strawbale@...>
>Subject: Post and Beam structural details
>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:51:27 +1300
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0
>Importance: Normal
>X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: duckchow@...
>
>I have the wonderful task of doing structural calculations for my first Post
>& Beam house. Two stories and wonderfully architecturally designed (in my
>view) by Bill Smith.
>
>I am presently planning how I will design and detail the earthquake/wind
>structure. I can either use the Posts and Beams and design moment-resisting
>connections or I could put some form of lateral bracing in. My preference
>is the latter with high tension steel cables and turnbuckles (You can get
>them made by and boat supplies place quite reasonably) or other form of
>bracing. I cannot work out how to use timber diagonal bracing and cut it
>into the wall thickness easily so I have decided to avoid it.
>
>I have been doing a bit of reading and figuring out but as this is sort of
>new to me and there are others around who actually know what they are doing
>already I plead for some help.
>
>I am trying to sort out details of the structure including:
>
>Should I locate the posts on the inside or the outside line of the bale
>(Within the bale wall though) so I can connect the diagonal bracing elements
>to them?
>
>Is using riblath (expanded metal) sheeting over connections between timber
>posts and bale walls and on corners good detailing?
>
>If I use the steel diagonal bracing should I put a layer of riblath over it
>to seperate it from the plaster to help prevent crack propogation along the
>line of the bracing?
>
>What sort of connections should there be between the Strawbale infill and
>the structure at the top?
>
>Do we need to compress the bales to avoid cracking with settlement of the
>bales over time?
>
>The client has decided they want a timber floor throughout. I can design
>the sub-floor bracing easily but as we know all houses settle to some degree
>or other. Do I need to be SUPER conservative to reduce differential
>settlement and hence the risk of possible cracking?
>
>If I use the timber structure with knee structural connections, what has
>been tried and proved to be cheap and simple to construct. (This will be
>built by a carpenter) How easily is it to modify the shape of the bales
>arount the diagonal struts that are needed to strengthen/build these
>connections?
>
>I would appreciate any assistance I could get. If anyone has any autocad
>drawings to send me that would be alright :-) (grin). We have ACad versions
>13 and 14 in the office. I also can read PDF and graphics files if any of
>you good folk out there have them.
>
>
>
>Gavin Jolly
>Project Engineer
>Webmaster
>Ian Smith and Partners
>P.O. Box 30535
>Lower Hutt
>New Zealand
>
>Ph: 0064 4 566 8004
>Fax: 0064 4 566 8037
>EMail:gavin@...
>
>Please visit our Web Site:
>http://www.isp.co.nz



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Freewheeling autonomous speculation - Think!
Personality #7 represents only itself.
M J Epko - duckchow@...
Kingston, New Mexico
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Whoever then wishes to be free, let him neither
wish for anything nor avoid anything which
depends on others. If he does not observe this
rule, he must be a slave.
- Epictetus, Encheiridion


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Nov 1998 01:45:00 -0600
From: M J Epko <duckchow@...>
Subject: Followup, and next TLS

For what it's worth, here's a couple responses to the message I just sent.
As luck would have it, the next issue of TLS is going to be focused on wall
systems. If any of you GSBNers out there have any good ideas to share
(photos and diagrams are a huge bonus), we'll be tickled to get 'em. Drop
me a line, let me know what you might like to write about. Deadline's
January 1, time to spare.

We have a few articles in already, and a few promised, but there's still
plenty of room. The secondary focus is Tech Tips in general... anything is
fair game for that. Prize for the farthest-away tip so far goes to Gary
Dorn of Australia.

*

From: John Salmen <terrain@...>

It sounds like you have already worked out your preferences. I would agree in
that my preference would be tension braces. Knee braces are not that effective
and limited to the quality of the timbers they are bracing, tried and true
yes,
unless you want to actually check the true aspect. Adjustable bracing works
well
in the field on assembly as it gives you a simple mechanism for adjustment,
which in dealing with timbers is no easy task at times.
If the frame is being built by a company with experience then they will have
preferences in this area, if a carpenter with experience is being hired to
your
specifications then I would consult him or her early in the process as
carpenters with experience in timber frames have large chunks of wood on their
shoulders. Is this a traditional timber frame or metal joinery. We have
simplified our frames to hidden plate connections (saw kerf with aluminum
plates
or brackets, or mortised in plywood biscuits)

best
John

*

From: John Swearingen <melong@...>
Subject: Re: Post and Beam structural details

At 04:51 PM 11/26/98 +1300, Gavin Jolly wrote:
>I am trying to sort out details of the structure including:
>
>Should I locate the posts on the inside or the outside line of the bale
>(Within the bale wall though) so I can connect the diagonal bracing elements
>to them?

Generally, we put the posts to the outside, where they bear on the
foundation/stem wall, with beams bearing on the posts, and floor joists
and/or rafters on the beams. Then the x-bracing goes on the outside.
>
>Is using riblath (expanded metal) sheeting over connections between
timber>posts and bale walls and on corners good detailing?

I don't think it's really necessary. We cover these connections with one
layer of paper (over metal) or two (over wood), and then stucco netting
goes over the paper. We've not had a problem with cracks.
>
>If I use the steel diagonal bracing should I put a layer of riblath over it
>to seperate it from the plaster to help prevent crack propogation along the
>line of the bracing?

See above.


>What sort of connections should there be between the Strawbale infill and
>the structure at the top?

Good ones. We use 2x2x24" stakes at 24" oc through a box beam into the top
course of bales. We also often run expanded metal lath about 10" down/up
from the plate/beam into the stucco on the wall.
>
>Do we need to compress the bales to avoid cracking with settlement of the
>bales over time?
>
No, but I would use some degree of compression to assure a tight fit.


>The client has decided they want a timber floor throughout. I can design
>the sub-floor bracing easily but as we know all houses settle to some degree
>or other. Do I need to be SUPER conservative to reduce differential
>settlement and hence the risk of possible cracking?

Are your bales resting on the subfloor? Where would be the differential
settlement?



>
>If I use the timber structure with knee structural connections, what has
>been tried and proved to be cheap and simple to construct.

Bolted steel plates. Designed so as to be attractive if they're visable.

(This will be
>built by a carpenter) How easily is it to modify the shape of the bales
around the diagonal struts that are needed to strengthen/build these
>connections?

Diagonal struts will slow down the bale stacking to a significant degree.
These can be avoided using steel straps outside the bales. BTW, we try to
keep our posts to 4" deep so that notches don't cut into the first string
of a 3-string bale.

The simplest system we've come up with, The Dan Smith Angle/Strap, uses a
heavy angle bolted to the foundation and another (upside down) bolted over
the top plate. The vertical sides of the angles have holes drilled to
receive bolts which hold the straps. The straps are 1/4" steel, cheap, and
stiff enough not to require turnbukles for tightening. All those cables
(which are somewhat unreliable in stretching) and turnbuckles are expensive
and take time to put together.
Good Luck!

Happy Thanksgiving! Isn't Cranberry a town in New Zealand?? (:

John

*



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Freewheeling autonomous speculation - Think!
Personality #7 represents only itself.
M J Epko - duckchow@...
Kingston, New Mexico
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keep away from people who try to belittle
your ambitions. Small people always do that,
but the really great make you feel that you,
too, can become great. - Mark Twain


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Nov 1998 14:09:07 -0600
From: "Lerner, Helmuth, McCandless" <options@...>
Subject: Straw-bale building in China

Hey folks,

We have a successful straw-bale school to be thankful today. Check out
http://www.chinadaily.net/cndy/history/d8-shol.k26.html for an article in
the China Daily. Big kudos to Scott Christiansen for his incredible vision
and to builder Frank Meyer for great execution of a new seismic design
under challenging circumstances. Straw-bale construction will soon be
making a huge difference in China!

Kelly Lerner
One World Design, International Design and Consulting
925 Avis Drive
El Cerrito, CA 94530
510.528.3765 Fax 510.528.8763

----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of Digest

To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in
the subject.



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= RFC822 Headers Follow =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
X-ENSMTPTo: GSBN
X-ENSMTPSubnet: txinfinet
Received: from lists.sustainablesources.com ([206.160.220.150] verified) by mail2.sustainablesources.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with SMTP id S.0000052705; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:44:40 -0600
Message-ID: <n1300001119.*4359@...>
From: "GSBN" <GSBN@...>
Subject: Digest for 11/26/98
To: "GSBN" <GSBN@...>
Precedence: Bulk
X-Listserver: ListSTAR v1.1 by StarNine Technologies, a Quarterdeck Company
Reply-To: GSBN@...
Errors-To: GSBN@...
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:44:41 -0600