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GSBN: Digest for 6/26/02



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---------------------------------------------------------------------


-> Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN
     by "John Swearingen" john@...
-> Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN
     by "Coralie & Andre de Bouter" m.ep@...
-> Request to join GSBN
     by bruce king ecobruce@...
-> Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN
     by Judyknox42@...
-> Re:  GSBN:Request to join GSBN
     by Strawnet@...
-> Re:  GSBN:More from Kelly about China
     by Strawnet@...
-> Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN
     by Judyknox42@...
-> Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN
     by stafford@...
-> Re: GSBN:More from Kelly about China
     by "Rene Dalmeijer" rened@...
-> Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN
     by billc_lists@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 00:49:41 -0500
From: "John Swearingen" john@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN

Hi,

I'll recommend Buddy.  He's an architect with Van der Ryn's office, very
sharp and knowledgeable about environmental building, and very dedicated and
concerned.  Good guy, too. You can check out the personal site of Buddy and
his wife, Joanne Tippett, at www.holocene.net   Lots of interesting links.

John Swearingen



- ----- Original Message -----
From: billc_lists@...
To: GSBN@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 9:17 PM
Subject: GSBN:Request to join GSBN


> Hi Folks,
>
> I just got two requests to join the list today, one from Buddy
> Williams buddy@... (the name's not familiar to me, so I
> requested more info from him) and the one below from Tera Berland.
> I'll forward whatever I get back from Buddy to the list, unless
> someone specifically invited him.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
>
> Original message:
>
> I am a researcher at the University of North Dakota Energy & Environmental
> Research Center. My specific interests are in the utilization of
> coal-combustion byproducts and the promotion of green building products. I
> am interested in learning more about the straw-building industry and hope
to
> conduct future research in this area.
>
> Tera Berland
> Marketing Research Specialist
> University of North Dakota
> Energy & Environmental Research Center
> 15 North 23rd Street
> Grand Forks, ND 58202
> Fax: (701) 777-5181
> Phone: (701) 777-5296
> Web: www.undeerc.org/carrc
> --
> Bill Christensen
> billc@...
>
> Green Homes For Sale/Lease:  http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/
> Green Building Pro Directory:  http://directory.sustainablesources.com/
> Sustainable Bldg Calendar:  http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/
> Sustainable Bldg Bookstore: http://SustainableSources.com/bookstore
> International Strawbale Registry: http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com

>
>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 07:32:17 -0500
From: "Coralie & Andre de Bouter" m.ep@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN

I second Buddy's participation.

Andre

> Hi,
>
> I'll recommend Buddy.  He's an architect with Van der Ryn's office, very
> sharp and knowledgeable about environmental building, and very dedicated
and
> concerned.  Good guy, too. You can check out the personal site of Buddy
and
> his wife, Joanne Tippett, at www.holocene.net   Lots of interesting links.
>
> John Swearingen
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: billc_lists@...
> To: GSBN@...
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 9:17 PM
> Subject: GSBN:Request to join GSBN
>
>
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I just got two requests to join the list today, one from Buddy
> > Williams buddy@... (the name's not familiar to me, so I
> > requested more info from him) and the one below from Tera Berland.
> > I'll forward whatever I get back from Buddy to the list, unless
> > someone specifically invited him.
> >
> > Let me know what you think.
> >
> >
> > Original message:
> >
> > I am a researcher at the University of North Dakota Energy &
Environmental
> > Research Center. My specific interests are in the utilization of
> > coal-combustion byproducts and the promotion of green building products.
I
> > am interested in learning more about the straw-building industry and
hope
> to
> > conduct future research in this area.
> >
> > Tera Berland
> > Marketing Research Specialist
> > University of North Dakota
> > Energy & Environmental Research Center
> > 15 North 23rd Street
> > Grand Forks, ND 58202
> > Fax: (701) 777-5181
> > Phone: (701) 777-5296
> > Web: www.undeerc.org/carrc
> > --
> > Bill Christensen
> > billc@...
> >
> > Green Homes For Sale/Lease:  http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/
> > Green Building Pro Directory:  http://directory.sustainablesources.com/
> > Sustainable Bldg Calendar:  http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/
> > Sustainable Bldg Bookstore: http://SustainableSources.com/bookstore
> > International Strawbale Registry: http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com
> > ----
> > For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> > ----
> >
> >
>
>

>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 09:36:16 -0500
From: bruce king ecobruce@...
Subject: Request to join GSBN


Bill Christensen wrote:

> I just got two requests to join the list today, one from Buddy
> Williams buddy@... (the name's not familiar to me, so I
> requested more info from him) and the one below from Tera Berland.
> I'll forward whatever I get back from Buddy to the list, unless
> someone specifically invited him.



Buddy is a very committed and talented green architect in Sim Van Der Ryn's
office in Sausalito, has been very active with CASBA, EBNet, and all things
straw-related, and is one of the funniest human beings I ever met, with the
possible exception of my distinguished colleague from Canada, Il Stronzo di
Nord.

Here's one solid vote to admit Buddy Williams.

Bruce King, PE
Structural Engineering Design
and Director
Ecological Building Network (EBNet)
209 Caledonia Street
Sausalito, California    94965   USA
(415) 331-7630
fax (415) 332-4072
ecobruce@...



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 11:01:51 -0500
From: Judyknox42@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN

Matts and I cast two strong votes in favor of Buddy joining us at the GSBN!  
He's talented, knowledgeable, is dedicated to developing straw-bale 
technology...and we will all benefit from his participation.
Judy Knox



Judy Knox  and Matts Myhrman 
1037 E. Linden St.
Tucson, AZ  85719
520-622-6896
judyknox42@...
mattsmyhrman@...

"Nobody ever made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could 
do little."  Edmund Burke


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 11:54:08 -0500
From: Strawnet@...
Subject: Re:  GSBN:Request to join GSBN

Re Buddy - I second the KING's (e) motion!

Re: Tera Berland, I'm much less certain - does anyone in the group know 
this person? Marketing research would appear to be the reseach specialty, 
which might be useful, but I'm wondering if this is the place to learn 
more about the sb industry in pursuit of future research projects? I know 
Bruce's eyes probably widened at the mention of the utilization of 
coal-combustion by products...but I notice no one else has yet commented 
on Tera's request... 

David Eisenberg

> Original message:
>
> I am a researcher at the University of North Dakota Energy & Environmental
> Research Center. My specific interests are in the utilization of
> coal-combustion byproducts and the promotion of green building products. I
> am interested in learning more about the straw-building industry and hope
>to conduct future research in this area.
>
> Tera Berland
> Marketing Research Specialist
> University of North Dakota
> Energy & Environmental Research Center
> 15 North 23rd Street
> Grand Forks, ND 58202
> Fax: (701) 777-5181
> Phone: (701) 777-5296
> Web: www.undeerc.org/carrc

>Buddy is a very committed and talented green architect in Sim Van Der Ryn's
>office in Sausalito, has been very active with CASBA, EBNet, and all things
>straw-related, and is one of the funniest human beings I ever met, with the
>possible exception of my distinguished colleague from Canada, Il Stronzo di
>Nord.
>
>Here's one solid vote to admit Buddy Williams.
>
>Bruce King, PE
- -----------------
> Original message:
>
> I am a researcher at the University of North Dakota Energy & Environmental
> Research Center. My specific interests are in the utilization of
> coal-combustion byproducts and the promotion of green building products. I
> am interested in learning more about the straw-building industry and hope
>to conduct future research in this area.
>
> Tera Berland
> Marketing Research Specialist
> University of North Dakota
> Energy & Environmental Research Center
> 15 North 23rd Street
> Grand Forks, ND 58202
> Fax: (701) 777-5181
> Phone: (701) 777-5296
> Web: www.undeerc.org/carrc


David Eisenberg
Director
Development Center for Appropriate Technology
P.O. Box 27513
Tucson, Arizona 85726-7513 USA
(520) 624-6628
(520) 798-3701 Fax
David@...
strawnet@...(direct personal e-mail)
www.dcat.net

The future is not out there in front of us, but inside us. - Joanna Macy



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 11:54:46 -0500
From: Strawnet@...
Subject: Re:  GSBN:More from Kelly about China

Hi all

This is a really interesting question - about the relative relative 
humidity. It is important to find out about the heating systems in the 
two house types - brick and straw.  I tend to agree with Derek's 
speculation that it has to do with less heating being done in the straw 
house, because that is an obvious significant difference between the two 
building types affecting the amount of air exchange at a large level, and 
possibly introducing or removing moisture into the houses depending on 
the heating system and configuration.

There are a lot of climate specific things to consider, as well as a few 
time/materials comparisons to check out. It is pretty much a certainty 
(barring some unusual circumstance bringing moisture into the building), 
however, that  unless there is something creating negative pressure in 
the house, in the winter there is no significant amount of moisture 
entering the building from outside. Moisture in buildings in the winter 
typically is coming from internal sources, since the physics require 
moisture to migrate from warm to cold and moist to dry -and when it is 
really cold, the outside air is usually drier than the interior. 

I wonder about the interior finishing in the brick houses. Are they also 
plastered?  Is there anything like the quantity of plaster in them as in 
the sb houses?  We shouldn't underestimate the amount of moisture that 
could be initially in the building from construction. Do the readings 
show variation of RH over time? Is there a trend - toward drying or 
increased humidity? And are there sensors in the walls themselves? Do we 
only know about the room RH or do we know about the moisture content in 
the bales too?

I'm thinking, like Derek, that if the straw houses turn out to be 
tighter, and there is less heating and ventilation going on, that this 
could be both a source of increased RH in the house and lowered indoor 
air quality. It would be interesting to do some sort of blower door test 
or air infiltration test on these houses to know just how much air 
exchange they have. I am remembering also the stories from the first sb 
houses in Mongolia, that they needed to leave a window open in the dead 
of winter - well below zero - because the heat from cooking overheated 
the spaces.  Of course those first two houses had bales in the floor and 
in the ceiling and I don't know what the floors or roof insulation is in 
the houses in question.

Well, there are just some thoughts from here. I think the one thing we do 
know is that we need more information to know what is actually going on 
in these houses. But isn't it great to this work going on in China and to 
have some monitoring and observations, and to know just how well these 
houses are outperforming their brick counterparts. Now if we had some 
stick houses to compare them to, we could invite the big bad wolf over 
and listen to him huff and puff and blow a few myths down.

David


David Eisenberg
Director
Development Center for Appropriate Technology
P.O. Box 27513
Tucson, Arizona 85726-7513 USA
(520) 624-6628
(520) 798-3701 Fax
David@...
strawnet@...(direct personal e-mail)
www.dcat.net

"When I despair, I remember that all through history
the ways of truth and love have always won. There have
been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can 
seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. 
Think of it ... Always."    --  Mohatma Gandhi



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 13:18:49 -0500
From: Judyknox42@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN


In a message dated 6/26/2002 9:50:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
Strawnet@...:


> 
> Re: Tera Berland, I'm much less certain - does anyone in the group know 
> this person? Marketing research would appear to be the reseach specialty, 
> which might be useful, but I'm wondering if this is the place to learn 
> more about the sb industry in pursuit of future research projects? I know 
> Bruce's eyes probably widened at the mention of the utilization of 
> coal-combustion by products...but I notice no one else has yet commented 
> on Tera's request... 
> 
> David Eisenberg
> 
> 

Judy Knox here again...I had meant to mention Tera's nomination in my earlier 
e-mail voting for Buddy.  I would add to David's comments that I think it 
would be premature to have her join the GSBN.  Let those GSBN members that 
are interested in collaborating with her do so...and, if in the future, she 
seems to be a contributing member of the global straw-bale community, invite 
her to join.
Judy Knox  and Matts Myhrman 
1037 E. Linden St.
Tucson, AZ  85719
520-622-6896
judyknox42@...
mattsmyhrman@...

"Nobody ever made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could 
do little."  Edmund Burke



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/26/2002
9:50:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time, Strawnet@...: 
 
 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> 
Re: Tera Berland, I'm much less certain - does anyone in the group know  
this person? Marketing research would appear to be the reseach specialty,  
which might be useful, but I'm wondering if this is the place to learn  
more about the sb industry in pursuit of future research projects? I know  
Bruce's eyes probably widened at the mention of the utilization of  
coal-combustion by products...but I notice no one else has yet commented  
on Tera's request...  
 
David Eisenberg 
 
</BLOCKQUOTE> 
 
Judy Knox here again...I had meant to mention Tera's nomination in my earlier
e-mail voting for Buddy.  I would add to David's comments that I think it
would be premature to have her join the GSBN.  Let those GSBN members
that are interested in collaborating with her do so...and, if in the future,
she seems to be a contributing member of the global straw-bale community,
invite her to join. 
Judy Knox  and Matts Myhrman  
1037 E. Linden St. 
Tucson, AZ  85719 
520-622-6896 
judyknox42@...
mattsmyhrman@...
 
"Nobody ever made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could
do little."  Edmund Burke</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_102.172d0f60.2a4b5e4d_boundary--


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 15:43:31 -0500
From: stafford@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN


I agree with David on the vote for Tera.

Chris Stafford

Judyknox42@...:

> In a message dated 6/26/2002 9:50:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> Strawnet@...:
>
>
>
>>
>> Re: Tera Berland, I'm much less certain - does anyone in the group
>> know
>> this person? Marketing research would appear to be the reseach
>> specialty,
>> which might be useful, but I'm wondering if this is the place to
>> learn
>> more about the sb industry in pursuit of future research projects? I
>> know
>> Bruce's eyes probably widened at the mention of the utilization of
>> coal-combustion by products...but I notice no one else has yet
>> commented
>> on Tera's request...
>>
>> David Eisenberg
>>
>
> Judy Knox here again...I had meant to mention Tera's nomination in my
> earlier e-mail voting for Buddy.  I would add to David's comments that
> I think it would be premature to have her join the GSBN.  Let those
> GSBN members that are interested in collaborating with her do
> so...and, if in the future, she seems to be a contributing member of
> the global straw-bale community, invite her to join.
> Judy Knox  and Matts Myhrman
> 1037 E. Linden St.
> Tucson, AZ  85719
> 520-622-6896
> judyknox42@...
> mattsmyhrman@...
>
> "Nobody ever made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he
> could do little."  Edmund Burke



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contained in the following MIME Information.
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x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
I agree with David on the vote for Tera.
<p>Chris Stafford
<p>Judyknox42@...:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>In a message
dated 6/26/2002 9:50:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time, Strawnet@...
writes:</font></font>
  
  
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> 
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Re: Tera Berland, I'm much
less certain - does anyone in the group know</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>this person? Marketing research
would appear to be the reseach specialty,</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>which might be useful, but
I'm wondering if this is the place to learn</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>more about the sb industry
in pursuit of future research projects? I know</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Bruce's eyes probably widened
at the mention of the utilization of</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>coal-combustion by
products...but
I notice no one else has yet commented</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>on Tera's
request...</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>David Eisenberg</font></font>
  </blockquote>

<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Judy Knox here again...I
had meant to mention Tera's nomination in my earlier e-mail voting for
Buddy.  I would add to David's comments that I think it would be
premature
to have her join the GSBN.  Let those GSBN members that are interested
in collaborating with her do so...and, if in the future, she seems to be
a contributing member of the global straw-bale community, invite her to
join.</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Judy Knox  and Matts
Myhrman</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>1037 E. Linden
St.</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Tucson, AZ 
85719</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>520-622-6896</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font
size=-1>judyknox42@aol.com</font></font>
 <font face="arial,helvetica"><font
size=-1>mattsmyhrman@aol.com</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>"Nobody ever made a greater
mistake than he who did nothing because he could do little."  Edmund
Burke</font></font></blockquote>
</html>

- --------------A5C459DB5F6C41E42FA1E5F1--



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 16:23:21 -0500
From: "Rene Dalmeijer" rened@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:More from Kelly about China

Derek, Kelly,

I support the case put by Derek. I would like to add the following.

In the brick houses there is a lot more heating going on. This heating is
effectively drying the air because the surface temperature of the heater has
to be much higher to create the same heating effect then for the better
insulated SB house. In the Netherlands poorly insulated houses with central
heating with radiators have a bad reputation because of the very dry air
during the winter 10%-20%. Simply replacing the single glasing with double
resulted in higher moisture levels. Sometimes to such an extent that
moisture problems cropped up due to previously disguised bad building
practices. For this very reason well insulated and airtight building
practices have had and still have a bad rap here. Offcourse this is due too
the prevailent and persistent belief in old wives tales and other vernacular
superstitions circulating in the building trade. (Its like these building
physicists are banding together to pull an enourmous con job on the poor
builders and other honest people)

There are various reasons for the drying effect in a poorly insulated house.
To compensate for the lower inner wall temperatures a higher heating
temperature is used this causes more air circulation due to convection and
most probably more are leakage. The extra air required for combustion is
also a substantial contributer to the dryness of the interior air in less
insulated buildings. Judging by the relatively high moisture levels in the
brick buildings I suspect that these houses have moisture problems.

I am interested in the heating systems used. What type of stoves and fuel
are used and where does the combustion air come form? What is the surface
temperature of the heating surfaces? (higher temperatures mean more
convection)  Ie drier air.

Kelly
>>> They also observed that the relative humidity (RH) in
>>> the straw-bale houses (SBH) is about 10% higher than in the brick
>>> houses (RH in SB 61%, RH in BH 51%). The RH of the SBH is much
>>> closer to the outdoor RH of 66.5%.

Derek
>I also doubt the "moisture sink" explanation. ...

>My best guess is that the difference has to do with the heating
>cycle, directly and indirectly.  Not knowing the details of the
>heating systems, we can't be sure of anything.  If the heating system
>exhausts air from the living space, as a fireplace or unsealed heater
>does, then an equivalent amount of air must be drawn into the house
>from outside, usually through open windows and/or small leaks and
>holes.  Assuming that the brick house and the SB house are equally
>tight (resistant to air leakage), we could explain the higher
>relative humidity of the SB house by the lower use of the heating
>system

Rene Dalmeijer



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 2002 21:59:03 -0500
From: billc_lists@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Request to join GSBN

>Hi Folks,
>
>I just got two requests to join the list today, one from Buddy 
>Williams buddy@... (the name's not familiar to me, so I 
>requested more info from him) and the one below from Tera Berland. 
>I'll forward whatever I get back from Buddy to the list, unless 
>someone specifically invited him.
>
>Let me know what you think.


Ok, Buddy's in.

I'll wait on Tera for a day or three, to see if there are any other 
comments.  If not, I'll send her a nice email explaining what's up, 
and encourage her to get involved in TLS and other projects.

- -- 
Bill Christensen
billc@...

Green Homes For Sale/Lease:  http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/
Green Building Pro Directory:  http://directory.sustainablesources.com/
Sustainable Bldg Calendar:  http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/
Sustainable Bldg Bookstore: http://SustainableSources.com/bookstore
International Strawbale Registry: http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------

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