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GSBN: Digest for 11/2/03



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-> Re: GSBN:ISBBC 004
     by Paul Lacinski paul@...
-> Re: GSBN:ISBBC 004
     by larskeller@...
-> Re: GSBN:ISBBC 004
     by larskeller@...
-> Re: GSBN:ISBBC 004
     by larskeller@...
-> Re: GSBN:Building Size Search
     by Joyce Coppinger thelaststraw@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 1 Nov 2003 23:43:31 -0500
From: Paul Lacinski paul@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ISBBC 004

Hello Lars!

First off, thank you for and congratulations on your work so far on 
the 04 event.  I sorely regretted missing the Australia conference, 
and I hope not to make that mistake again.

2 points-

1- You included no dates, which leads me to assume you haven't 
decided yet.  Is there a particlar month that you are leaning toward?

2- I have been thinking for some time about the link between the 
natural building movement and the preservation movement.  Whenever I 
attend a preservation training on some technique (lime plaster, let's 
say) I always find that these people, with their well developed sense 
of both history and materials, feel a strong affinity for what we are 
doing.  It is philosophically similar to how people built before 
"better living through chemistry"- we are attempting to make high 
quality buildings from relatively elemental materials.  By looking at 
old buildings I have received a valuable education in design and 
construction details that have been tested by time, and by taking 
occasional preservation courses I have learned how to use some 
materials well.  (You aren't going to find classes on lime plaster at 
Home Despot, eh?)

Preservationists also have things to learn from us- the massive 
amount of experimentation going on in the natural building world is 
in part a reaching back- to rediscover lost materials and techniques. 
And preservationists are notoriously foolish when it comes to issues 
like insulation, etc- historically accurate doors that don't come 
close to sealing,  or thinking that if a cavity wall were not 
insulated at the outset, it shouldn't be now.  I see this as a mild 
insult to the intelligence of the original bulders- they'd have used 
an appropriate insulation if they had thought of it, or had the right 
materials at hand.

But this is just quasi-technical stuff.  What I'm really interested 
in is that preservation, over the last 30 years in much of the 
developed world, has been an enormously successful movement.  (Not so 
in the developing world- I can't tell you how painful it is to see 
400 year old brick or stone buildings (and the exquisitely human 
spaces between them) being demolished en masse in Beijing, to make 
way for the glass anywhere that will announce to the world, via the 
2008 Olympics, that China is now a modern country.)  The success of 
preservation in the West is partly because people enjoy a physical 
connection to their history, and partly because many of the buildings 
conserved have been grand.  But I am sure that it is also because, 
after a generation or two, people realized that chemistry might be 
useful for more practical living, but that "better" is much harder to 
define.  And old buildings (and here we can add new, natural 
buildings) have a feel and beauty and timelessness and life to them 
that you don't find in the developer's model home.

OK, sorry about the position paper.  The point is that you must have 
alot of great old buildings, large and small, wood, masonry, and 
otherwise, within a reasonable distance of this conference site. 
(Those seaweed roofs come to mind!)  I think a tour of historical 
buildings would be splendid, as would some conference sessions 
describing in detail how they were designed and built.  In my 
idealized world you would find a preservation group who was willing 
to organize that part of things, and that would be useful for future 
working relationships.  Leading, of course, to new natural buildings 
which become, in the slow, sweet flow of time, candidates for 
historical preservation.

Thanks again, and also in advance, for all your work on this!

Paul
- -- 
Paul Lacinski
GreenSpace Collaborative
Sidehill Farm
PO Box 107
463 Mail Street
Ashfield, MA 01330 USA
01-413-628-3800


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Nov 2003 18:06:44 -0500
From: larskeller@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ISBBC 004

Hi Paul.

Thank you very much. My pleasure.
I sincerely look forward to see you soon.
- - In my own edition of Life's Good Stories I have this scene taking place at
The Howlin' Wolf. A veranda and a rocking chair.

I agree with you very much.
I will think a lot about it.
It is a whole new task to try to get in good contact with this group.

I look forward to read "news" from Mongolia. Maybe even a few words about how
the indoor CLAY-plaster on the Tugrug clinic has performed, and whether that
has inspired UNDP to implement clayplasters on the insides of their buildings
(for all the good reasons we know of) ?

Kind regards
Lars Keller

~~~

Paul Lacinski paul@... wrote:
> Hello Lars!
> 
> First off, thank you for and congratulations on your work so
> far on 
> the 04 event.  I sorely regretted missing the Australia
> conference, 
> and I hope not to make that mistake again.
> 
> 2 points-
> 
> 1- You included no dates, which leads me to assume you
> haven't 
> decided yet.  Is there a particlar month that you are
> leaning toward?
> 
> 2- I have been thinking for some time about the link between
> the 
> natural building movement and the preservation movement. 
> Whenever I 
> attend a preservation training on some technique (lime
> plaster, let's 
> say) I always find that these people, with their well
> developed sense 
> of both history and materials, feel a strong affinity for
> what we are 
> doing.  It is philosophically similar to how people built
> before 
> "better living through chemistry"- we are attempting to make
> high 
> quality buildings from relatively elemental materials.  By
> looking at 
> old buildings I have received a valuable education in design
> and 
> construction details that have been tested by time, and by
> taking 
> occasional preservation courses I have learned how to use
> some 
> materials well.  (You aren't going to find classes on lime
> plaster at 
> Home Despot, eh?)
> 
> Preservationists also have things to learn from us- the
> massive 
> amount of experimentation going on in the natural building
> world is 
> in part a reaching back- to rediscover lost materials and
> techniques. 
> And preservationists are notoriously foolish when it comes
> to issues 
> like insulation, etc- historically accurate doors that don't
> come 
> close to sealing,  or thinking that if a cavity wall were
> not 
> insulated at the outset, it shouldn't be now.  I see this as
> a mild 
> insult to the intelligence of the original bulders- they'd
> have used 
> an appropriate insulation if they had thought of it, or had
> the right 
> materials at hand.
> 
> But this is just quasi-technical stuff.  What I'm really
> interested 
> in is that preservation, over the last 30 years in much of
> the 
> developed world, has been an enormously successful movement.
>  (Not so 
> in the developing world- I can't tell you how painful it is
> to see 
> 400 year old brick or stone buildings (and the exquisitely
> human 
> spaces between them) being demolished en masse in Beijing,
> to make 
> way for the glass anywhere that will announce to the world,
> via the 
> 2008 Olympics, that China is now a modern country.)  The
> success of 
> preservation in the West is partly because people enjoy a
> physical 
> connection to their history, and partly because many of the
> buildings 
> conserved have been grand.  But I am sure that it is also
> because, 
> after a generation or two, people realized that chemistry
> might be 
> useful for more practical living, but that "better" is much
> harder to 
> define.  And old buildings (and here we can add new, natural
> 
> buildings) have a feel and beauty and timelessness and life
> to them 
> that you don't find in the developer's model home.
> 
> OK, sorry about the position paper.  The point is that you
> must have 
> alot of great old buildings, large and small, wood, masonry,
> and 
> otherwise, within a reasonable distance of this conference
> site. 
> (Those seaweed roofs come to mind!)  I think a tour of
> historical 
> buildings would be splendid, as would some conference
> sessions 
> describing in detail how they were designed and built.  In
> my 
> idealized world you would find a preservation group who was
> willing 
> to organize that part of things, and that would be useful
> for future 
> working relationships.  Leading, of course, to new natural
> buildings 
> which become, in the slow, sweet flow of time, candidates
> for 
> historical preservation.
> 
> Thanks again, and also in advance, for all your work on
> this!
> 
> Paul
> -- 
> Paul Lacinski
> GreenSpace Collaborative
> Sidehill Farm
> PO Box 107
> 463 Mail Street
> Ashfield, MA 01330 USA
> 01-413-628-3800
> ----
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the
> GSBN list, send email to GSBN@...
> HELP in the SUBJECT line.  
> ----
> 

~~~

Lars Keller
Friland 12 B
Feldballe
8410 Ronde
Danmark

0045-20240505
larskeller@...
~~~


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Nov 2003 18:06:52 -0500
From: larskeller@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ISBBC 004

Hi Paul.

Thank you very much. My pleasure.
I sincerely look forward to see you soon.
- - In my own edition of Life's Good Stories I have this scene taking place at
The Howlin' Wolf. A veranda and a rocking chair.

I agree with you very much.
I will think a lot about it.
It is a whole new task to try to get in good contact with this group.

I look forward to read "news" from Mongolia. Maybe even a few words about how
the indoor CLAY-plaster on the Tugrug clinic has performed, and whether that
has inspired UNDP to implement clayplasters on the insides of their buildings
(for all the good reasons we know of) ?

Kind regards
Lars Keller

~~~

Paul Lacinski paul@... wrote:
> Hello Lars!
> 
> First off, thank you for and congratulations on your work so
> far on 
> the 04 event.  I sorely regretted missing the Australia
> conference, 
> and I hope not to make that mistake again.
> 
> 2 points-
> 
> 1- You included no dates, which leads me to assume you
> haven't 
> decided yet.  Is there a particlar month that you are
> leaning toward?
> 
> 2- I have been thinking for some time about the link between
> the 
> natural building movement and the preservation movement. 
> Whenever I 
> attend a preservation training on some technique (lime
> plaster, let's 
> say) I always find that these people, with their well
> developed sense 
> of both history and materials, feel a strong affinity for
> what we are 
> doing.  It is philosophically similar to how people built
> before 
> "better living through chemistry"- we are attempting to make
> high 
> quality buildings from relatively elemental materials.  By
> looking at 
> old buildings I have received a valuable education in design
> and 
> construction details that have been tested by time, and by
> taking 
> occasional preservation courses I have learned how to use
> some 
> materials well.  (You aren't going to find classes on lime
> plaster at 
> Home Despot, eh?)
> 
> Preservationists also have things to learn from us- the
> massive 
> amount of experimentation going on in the natural building
> world is 
> in part a reaching back- to rediscover lost materials and
> techniques. 
> And preservationists are notoriously foolish when it comes
> to issues 
> like insulation, etc- historically accurate doors that don't
> come 
> close to sealing,  or thinking that if a cavity wall were
> not 
> insulated at the outset, it shouldn't be now.  I see this as
> a mild 
> insult to the intelligence of the original bulders- they'd
> have used 
> an appropriate insulation if they had thought of it, or had
> the right 
> materials at hand.
> 
> But this is just quasi-technical stuff.  What I'm really
> interested 
> in is that preservation, over the last 30 years in much of
> the 
> developed world, has been an enormously successful movement.
>  (Not so 
> in the developing world- I can't tell you how painful it is
> to see 
> 400 year old brick or stone buildings (and the exquisitely
> human 
> spaces between them) being demolished en masse in Beijing,
> to make 
> way for the glass anywhere that will announce to the world,
> via the 
> 2008 Olympics, that China is now a modern country.)  The
> success of 
> preservation in the West is partly because people enjoy a
> physical 
> connection to their history, and partly because many of the
> buildings 
> conserved have been grand.  But I am sure that it is also
> because, 
> after a generation or two, people realized that chemistry
> might be 
> useful for more practical living, but that "better" is much
> harder to 
> define.  And old buildings (and here we can add new, natural
> 
> buildings) have a feel and beauty and timelessness and life
> to them 
> that you don't find in the developer's model home.
> 
> OK, sorry about the position paper.  The point is that you
> must have 
> alot of great old buildings, large and small, wood, masonry,
> and 
> otherwise, within a reasonable distance of this conference
> site. 
> (Those seaweed roofs come to mind!)  I think a tour of
> historical 
> buildings would be splendid, as would some conference
> sessions 
> describing in detail how they were designed and built.  In
> my 
> idealized world you would find a preservation group who was
> willing 
> to organize that part of things, and that would be useful
> for future 
> working relationships.  Leading, of course, to new natural
> buildings 
> which become, in the slow, sweet flow of time, candidates
> for 
> historical preservation.
> 
> Thanks again, and also in advance, for all your work on
> this!
> 
> Paul
> -- 
> Paul Lacinski
> GreenSpace Collaborative
> Sidehill Farm
> PO Box 107
> 463 Mail Street
> Ashfield, MA 01330 USA
> 01-413-628-3800
> ----
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the
> GSBN list, send email to GSBN@...
> HELP in the SUBJECT line.  
> ----
> 

~~~

Lars Keller
Friland 12 B
Feldballe
8410 Ronde
Danmark

0045-20240505
larskeller@...
~~~


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Nov 2003 18:08:16 -0500
From: larskeller@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ISBBC 004

Dear GSBN

Sorry for sending the previous mail to GSBN and not only Paul Lacinski.

Kind regards
Lars Keller

~~~

Lars Keller
Friland 12 B
Feldballe
8410 Ronde
Danmark

0045-20240505
larskeller@...
~~~


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Nov 2003 22:48:08 -0500
From: Joyce Coppinger thelaststraw@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Building Size Search

Appreciate the updates you are sending. We'll help where we can, if needed.

Joyce


on 11/1/03 1:09 PM, Bob Bolles at Bob@...:

> Thank you Joyce - I appreciate your thoughtfulness
> We know of the 2 SBs that were lost in the fire in our local, but do not
> know if there were any others that I am unaware of.
> The Crestridge Ecological Preserve building was unpermitted, and thus
> uninsured. I spoke With Leslie Reynolds, the gal in charge of the
> project, last night, and we are gearing up to find some more $s for the
> project. That could be tough for a while, as the State is beyond broke,
> and there are other projects/people that take a greater priority, of
> course.
> I just had an email exchange with the Woolf's and they are in the
> process of assessing the project and working on seeing how much they
> will get for their loss. It was not quite finished (not yet plastered),
> so they will have to make some determination of the "value". No way to
> retrieve their sweat equity. I will keep you all informed, and as needs
> arrive, I will pass them on - Thank you so much for your concern.
> Regards
> Bob
> 
> Bob Bolles
> Sustainable Building Systems
> San Diego County, California
> Bob@...
> www.StrawBaleHouse.com
> Join our So. Cal. Community Forum
> http://www.onelist.com/community/casbasouth
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GSBN [mailto:GSBN@...] On Behalf Of Joyce
> Coppinger
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 8:59 AM
> To: GSBN
> Subject: Re: GSBN:Building Size Search
> 
> 
> Thanks, Bob. 
> 
> I think I visited with Kent a while back. Good to have my memory
> refreshed.
> 
> Our thoughts and prayers are with everyone in or near the fires in
> California. We hope there will be an end to all this destruction and
> tragedy soon. Can people send money or help in other ways for those in
> the strawbale community who have suffered losses - and if we can, tell
> us where and how.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Joyce 
> 
> 
> on 10/31/03 6:05 AM, Bob Bolles at Bob@...:
> 
>> Hola Joyce
>> Architect Kent Hems has a Straw Bale church under construction in
>> Imperial county , CA (Bordered by Mexico to the south, and Arizona on
>> the east) that is larger than the Ridge Winery. This from Kent on
>> Thursday 10/30/03: <snip>
>> The church building is just over 21,000 SF and consists of a
>> pre-engineered metal frame that is being infilled with straw.  We have
>> the door bucks up with the first bale in place around the perimeter
>> along with one 20 foot section of wall.  That was as far as the County
>> would lets go on the first Phase of our permit.  The remainder of the
>> permit is forthcoming, possibly tomorrow which means we will begin
>> stacking real soon.  Feel free to pay me a visit any time just give me
> a
>> couple of days warning since I have been super busy.
>> 
>> The fires have been sad to observe,  a real tragedy!  We pray that
>> they can be extinguished soon.
>> 
>> Keep in touch.
> 
> ----
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> 
> ----
> 
> 
> ----
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
> 



----------------------------------------------------------------------

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