[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

GSBN: Digest for 10/22/04



This message contains a digest of the messages posted to the list today. If
you reply to this message, please be sure to change the subject line to
something meaningful. Also, be careful not to include the entire text of this
message in your reply.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


-> Re: GSBN:Re: Moisture in SBW
     by Chris Magwood TLSEditor@...
-> Danny Buck's SB water problem
     by Bruce King ecobruce@...
-> I would like to nominate Laura Struempler to join GSBN
     by Strawnet@...
-> Re: GSBN:I would like to nominate Laura Struempler to join GSBN
     by billc_lists@...
-> Re:  Re: GSBN:I would like to nominate Laura Struempler to join GSBN
     by Strawnet@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Oct 2004 12:11:57 -0600
From: Chris Magwood TLSEditor@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Moisture in SBW

Danny,

Good to see that your case has sparked such enthusiastic discussion!
Glad to know we're all alive on this list.

We've had two cases here where walls were dramatically soaked, and
yet were able to dry down once the problem of water entry was solved,
even through the plaster. Of course, the plaster has to be free of
any elastomeric or other impervious coatings. And if we can dry 'em
up here in Ontario, you can probably dry 'em there.

In terms of fixing the windows, we have been using a window buck
design that can probably be retrofitted and which works very well.

Rather than affixing the rough sill of the buck by nailing it in from
the sides of the uprights (or setting it on a jack stud), we have
been cutting a groove into the sides of the uprights (with a slight
slope downwards to the outside) and then making a sill piece that is
at least 2 inches wider than the rest of the buck. The sill is cut so
it is wider than the sides of the uprights, and we often bevel the
face that will protrude from the wall. With some glue or caulking in
the groove, we get a really tight seam and a sill that protrudes well
beyond the finished plaster, and beyond the sides of the window, too.

If all those words sound confusing, I could just send you a picture!

Anyway, I think if you're doing a bit of excavation under the
windows, a handsaw or recipro saw could cut the grooves into the
existing uprights, and you'd be able to add tile or stone back on top
of the wood if desired.

Cheers,

Chris

>Hello everyone;
>
>Haven't spoken up for a while, but am following what's going on. Thanks for
>all the good SB energy.
>
>I have been called in to look at a house that I did not build, but was
>showing a spot of moisture in one of the interior walls in the mud
>plaster.After some investigation, we have found extensive moisture
>throughout one wing of the house.This wing has a flat roof with no overhang.
>The other two wings have overhangs and are testing dry. Moisture in the
>former is as high as 40% in spots, but a lot of areas in the low 20% range.
>The pattern seems to be mainly under the flagstone window sills (about 8"
>deep and probably without any flashing under the flagstone.). The other main
>factor seems to be that the entire house has elastomeric stucco. The owner
>has been caulking cracks in the stucco, which appear to be caused by
>moisture buildup- ie the areas along cracks tend to be very wet just below
>the stucco.
>
>The house was built with a system local to our area caled "bale block". This
>a system where two 4" diameter holes are drilled through each bale prior to
>it being laid into the wall. After two courses have been laid, a 4" PVC is
>used as a form and a reinforced concrete column is poured through each
>drilled hole, the PVC then being extracted. At every other course, a 2"
>reinforced "beam" is poured the width of the bale. Thus we have a concrete
>grid running vertically and horizontally throughout the wall.
>
>The owners are committed to making the house right (and rightly so for
>everyone's sake). Here are some questions under consideration:
>
>1. We want to strip the house entirely of the elastomeric stucco, replacing
>it with a cementitious color coat where the walls are dry. We are thinking
>of sand blasting it off. any other ideas?
>
>2. The stone sills run the full depth of the straw bales, with the windows
>set on top of them. Is there any realistic way to make this waterproof
>without tearing out the entire sill?
>
>3. We are expecting to tear out straw, wherever it is wet. Ibelieve it will
>be difficult but doable in spite of all of the concrete. I am thinking that
>we can get some drying once the walls are opened up, but doubt that we can
>expect to really dry more than a few inches from the surface. Can we dry
>deeper than that? What parameters shoud we use in deciding how much straw to
>extract? When the moisture meter hits concrete in wet areas, the concrete is
>as wet or wetter than the bales. Why?
>
>4. Once straw is pulled out, with the concrete grid still in place, what can
>we possibly refill the walls with?. The moisture tends towards the outside
>of the walls, so we are hoping to keep the interior surfaces intact and just
>work from the outside.When refilling the walls, we want to keep moisture to
>a minimum, so straw clay or other poured or puddled materials seem unlikely.
>I do not see how to use straw realistically- would that be possible? We are
>going into winter here.
>
>5. I have not had a chance to investigate any possible coverage from
>liability insurance the original contractor may have carried. Would we
>expect this to apply? The house is about 4-5 years old.
>
>I am sure that other questions will arise as we proceed. This a very
>beautiful home, with lovely interior finishes. One problem inside is that
>the clay floors are wearing poorly around furniture. They want it replaced
>with colored concrete. Any ideas on this?
>
>Look forward to a response. Anyone want to do some volunteer (or perhaps
>paid) work on forensic straw bale?
>
>Cheers
>
>Danny Buck
>Santa Fe, NM
>
>----
>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>technical editing arm.
>
>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>SUBJECT line.
>----

- --


***************************

Chris Magwood / Camel's Back Straw Bale Construction
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawhomes.ca";>http://www.strawhomes.ca</a>

Interested in bale building? Have you subscribed to
The Last Straw Journal?
You should!
  <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.thelaststraw.org";>http://www.thelaststraw.org</a>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Oct 2004 16:25:40 -0600
From: Bruce King ecobruce@...
Subject: Danny Buck's SB water problem


Danny Buck wrote:

I have been called in to look at a house . . .

3. We are expecting to tear out straw, wherever it is wet. I believe it will
be difficult but doable in spite of all of the concrete. I am thinking that
we can get some drying once the walls are opened up, but doubt that we can
expect to really dry more than a few inches from the surface. Can we dry
deeper than that? What parameters shoud we use in deciding how much straw to
extract? When the moisture meter hits concrete in wet areas, the concrete is
as wet or wetter than the bales.
Why?

4. Once straw is pulled out, with the concrete grid still in place, what can
we possibly refill the walls with?. The moisture tends towards the outside
of the walls, so we are hoping to keep the interior surfaces intact and just
work from the outside.When refilling the walls, we want to keep moisture to
a minimum, so straw clay or other poured or puddled materials seem unlikely.
I do not see how to use straw realistically- would that be possible? We are
going into winter here.

Danny -

I recently had an unnoticed, 2nd story, major plumbing leak dump several
hundred gallons of water directly onto a fully plastered north wall -- it
was only discovered when water was seen squishing out from the base of
plaster inside &amp; out.  That was early June;  I had them sawcut the
lime-cement plaster off the outside in strips along the worst areas, hoping
the onset of summer weather would save us (it never rains here after May).

It didn't save us.  Moisture readings in the dense rice bales hardly changed
after a week, or in three weeks.  At best we had some surficial drying, but
even pulling all the outside plaster off that entire area didn't hasten
drying enough.  So, I ended up personally pulling about five bales worth of
still fully soaked (but not quite yet funky smelling) straw out of the wall
to the backside of the very nice interior plaster.

My guess is that you just can't dry out hundreds of gallons by drying/vapor
transmission.  A few gallons, yes (as others' posts, and my own prior
experiences, have intimated).  So it becomes a judgement call to make as to
whether you think you can hasten drying enough so as to avert trouble, or
need to go in and yank the wet straw.

In our case, as this area would always be under the bathtub that leaked, and
was also next to another ground floor bathroom, we opted to build a 2x4
infill wall with plywood along the outside surface to patch the hole, and
then blew the cavity full of loose fiberglass insulation.

Good luck!

Bruce King, PE
Director, Ecological Building Network
209 Caledonia St.
Sausalito, CA 94965
(415) 331-7630
fax 332-4072
www.ecobuildnetwork.org
bruce@ ecobuildnetwork.org



- --- This list does not allow attachments or HTML mail.  ---
- ---The notes below outline what was removed. ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
- ---


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Oct 2004 19:07:55 -0600
From: Strawnet@...
Subject: I would like to nominate Laura Struempler to join GSBN

Hello all,

I want to suggest that our U.S. colleague, Laura Struempler, be added to
the GSBN. I have been working with Laura on a couple of sb projects that
have moisture problems and have been forwarding all the relevant messages
from this list to her. She's been involved with straw bale since 1994 and
she built her own straw bale house in Colorado in 1995/96. She was the
straw boss for building three of the beautiful sb buildings at the
Waldorf School on the Roaring Fork in Carbondale, CO
(<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.waldorfschoolrf.com/buildings.htm";>http://www.waldorfschoolrf.com/buildings.htm</a>), had her own straw bale
stucco company for a while/

She is currently working on designing and installing the moisture
monitoring system for the Straw House Market in Helena Montana
(<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawhousemarket.com/index.htm";>http://www.strawhousemarket.com/index.htm</a>) and is about to start
construction on a sb house in Carbondale which she will be supervising.

Laura also has experience with other alternative building materials and
systems and with other straw bale school projects. She has a backgound in
environmental education. Laura has a lot to contribute and would also
benefit from being in the GSBN network. Her e-mail is
struemplerconsulting@...

Thanks for considering this.

David Eisenberg

David Eisenberg, Director
Development Center for Appropriate Technology
P.O. Box 27513, Tucson, AZ  85726-7513
(520) 624-6628 voice / (520) 798-3701 fax
strawnet@...
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.dcat.net";>http://www.dcat.net</a>

"Truly appropriate technology is technology that ordinary people
can use for their own benefit and the benefit of their community
that doesn't make them dependent on systems over which they have
no control."             John F.C. Turner



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Oct 2004 20:09:44 -0600
From: billc_lists@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:I would like to nominate Laura Struempler to join GSBN

By DEvine fiat, Laura has been added to GSBN.

With a recommendation like that, how could we not?


At 8:48 PM -0400 10/22/04, Strawnet@...:
>Hello all,
>
>I want to suggest that our U.S. colleague, Laura Struempler, be added to
>the GSBN. I have been working with Laura on a couple of sb projects that
>have moisture problems and have been forwarding all the relevant messages
>from this list to her. She's been involved with straw bale since 1994 and
>she built her own straw bale house in Colorado in 1995/96. She was the
>straw boss for building three of the beautiful sb buildings at the
>Waldorf School on the Roaring Fork in Carbondale, CO
>(<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.waldorfschoolrf.com/buildings.htm";>http://www.waldorfschoolrf.com/buildings.htm</a>), had her own straw bale
>stucco company for a while/
>
>She is currently working on designing and installing the moisture
>monitoring system for the Straw House Market in Helena Montana
>(<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawhousemarket.com/index.htm";>http://www.strawhousemarket.com/index.htm</a>) and is about to start
>construction on a sb house in Carbondale which she will be supervising.
>
>Laura also has experience with other alternative building materials and
>systems and with other straw bale school projects. She has a backgound in
>environmental education. Laura has a lot to contribute and would also
>benefit from being in the GSBN network. Her e-mail is
>struemplerconsulting@...
>
>Thanks for considering this.
>
>David Eisenberg
>
>David Eisenberg, Director
>Development Center for Appropriate Technology
>P.O. Box 27513, Tucson, AZ  85726-7513
>(520) 624-6628 voice / (520) 798-3701 fax
>strawnet@...
><a  target="_blank" href="http://www.dcat.net";>http://www.dcat.net</a>
>
>"Truly appropriate technology is technology that ordinary people
>can use for their own benefit and the benefit of their community
>that doesn't make them dependent on systems over which they have
>no control."             John F.C. Turner
>
>----
>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>technical editing arm.
>
>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>SUBJECT line.
>----


- --
Bill Christensen
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Oct 2004 20:46:15 -0600
From: Strawnet@...
Subject: Re:  Re: GSBN:I would like to nominate Laura Struempler to join GSBN

>By DEvine fiat, Laura has been added to GSBN.
>
>With a recommendation like that, how could we not?

Many thanks...

Welcome Laura!

David

David Eisenberg
DCAT
www.dcat.net

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The United States is a nation of laws,
badly written and randomly enforced.
                        -  Frank Zappa



----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of Digest

To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in
the subject.