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GSBN: Digest for 10/27/04



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-> Re: GSBN:Danny Buck's SB water problem
     by Derek Roff derek@...
-> Re:  Re: GSBN:Danny Buck's SB water problem
     by Strawnet@...
-> Re: GSBN:Danny Buck's SB water problem- flashing
     by Derek Roff derek@...
-> Re:  Re: GSBN:Danny Buck's SB water problem
     by Paul Lacinski paul@...


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Date: 27 Oct 2004 09:15:19 -0600
From: Derek Roff derek@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Danny Buck's SB water problem

I have two comments, in reaction to other postings.  I agree with John
Straube, that using sufficiently heated air can dramatically speed drying,
and will not excessively promote mold growth, if the temperature of the
drying air can be maintained at the levels he indicates (120-160 degrees
F).  It will be important to monitor the temperatures experienced by the
damp straw, since the heated air will be cooled as it is delivered to the
bales, and by the very evaporation that we aim to achieve.  Still, if the
air at the interface with the drying straw is above 110 degrees F, I think
the enhanced drying will be a significant advantage, and will decrease the
risk of mold growth.  As John mentioned, the problem of excessive fungal
growth comes from offering molds warm, moist air in the neighborhood of
70-90 deg F.

I also agree with Paul Lacinski's comments, and react only to the final
word in his suggestion quoted below:

> It should then be possible to retrofit a flashing pan from
> below, either of bituthane or aluminum or lead.

I would plead with all of us to avoid using introducing more lead (or other
toxic, persistent materials) into the environment, especially when viable
alternatives are available, such as the two Paul mentions.  Lead flashing
is used to deal with rain water.  That flowing water will introduce lead
compounds into the soil, ground water, and our streams, lakes and rivers.
In addition, it is likely that the lead will not be properly handled during
remodeling and the eventual demolition of the building.

Minimizing toxic materials is a continuing challenge to all builders, and I
intend no criticism of Paul.  I just wanted to offer another call for
attention to the issue.

Derek

Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: derek@...




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Date: 27 Oct 2004 10:48:05 -0600
From: Strawnet@...
Subject: Re:  Re: GSBN:Danny Buck's SB water problem

Thanks Derek,

I was going to try to find the time to write about the lead issue - and
to suggest that some people like copper for this kind of flashing. Easy
to work with, nice looking if it shows, and a much smaller ecological
footprint than lead. Some people object to all metals, I know.

David

David Eisenberg, Director

Development Center for Appropriate Technology
P.O. Box 27513, Tucson, AZ  85726-7513
(520) 624-6628 voice / (520) 798-3701 fax
strawnet@...
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.dcat.net";>http://www.dcat.net</a>

The Development Center for Appropriate Technology is a 501(c)(3)
non-profit organization. Our primary support comes from charitable
contributions from individuals and businesses, from our educational and
training programs and consulting services, and to a lesser degree today
from foundation grants. Please consider helping support our vital work.
Our mission is to enhance the health of the planet and our communities by
promoting a shift to sustainable construction and development practices
through leadership, strategic relationships, and education. To learn
about DCAT's work and how you can support it, please visit our website at
www.dcat.net



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Date: 27 Oct 2004 12:47:48 -0600
From: Derek Roff derek@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Danny Buck's SB water problem- flashing

I like copper flashing.  I have read that in the San Francisco Bay area,
the copper levels in the water are a concern.  I haven't heard of this
being an issue in any other location, but as always, checking local
conditions is essential to making informed, site specific choices.

Some people worry about aluminum.  I am currently skeptical of the risk,
because aluminum is a light metal that is extremely abundant in the earth's
crust.  Humans, and indeed all land creatures, have evolved with continuous
exposure to aluminum compounds.  However, we may find that something about
our current exposure patterns introduces new risks.  Copper is recognized
as necessary for human nutrition, although in small amounts.  At the same
time, many common copper compounds are toxic, so the quantities and details
matter.  Lead is considered toxic in the range of parts per million, and
many scientists say, parts per billion.  There is clearly a large
difference in the level of risk in our exposure to different metals.

Derek

- --On Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:28 PM -0400 Strawnet@...:

> Thanks Derek,
>
> I was going to try to find the time to write about the lead issue - and
> to suggest that some people like copper for this kind of flashing. Easy
> to work with, nice looking if it shows, and a much smaller ecological
> footprint than lead. Some people object to all metals, I know.
>
> David
>
> David Eisenberg, Director
>
> Development Center for Appropriate Technology
> P.O. Box 27513, Tucson, AZ  85726-7513
> (520) 624-6628 voice / (520) 798-3701 fax
> strawnet@...
> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.dcat.net";>http://www.dcat.net</a>



Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: derek@...




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Date: 27 Oct 2004 19:58:53 -0600
From: Paul Lacinski paul@...
Subject: Re:  Re: GSBN:Danny Buck's SB water problem

Well put, Derek and David.  I also avoid lead, for just the reasons
you mention.  I had been thinking that in this case its flexibility
might make it uniquely useful, and thereby outweigh its ecological
negatives.  But I guess severe developmental problems in children is
a pretty substantial ecological negative.  Thanks!

Paul



>Thanks Derek,
>
>I was going to try to find the time to write about the lead issue - and
>to suggest that some people like copper for this kind of flashing. Easy
>to work with, nice looking if it shows, and a much smaller ecological
>footprint than lead. Some people object to all metals, I know.
>
>David
>
>David Eisenberg, Director
>
>Development Center for Appropriate Technology
>P.O. Box 27513, Tucson, AZ  85726-7513
>(520) 624-6628 voice / (520) 798-3701 fax
>strawnet@...
><a  target="_blank" href="http://www.dcat.net";>http://www.dcat.net</a>
>
>The Development Center for Appropriate Technology is a 501(c)(3)
>non-profit organization. Our primary support comes from charitable
>contributions from individuals and businesses, from our educational and
>training programs and consulting services, and to a lesser degree today
>from foundation grants. Please consider helping support our vital work.
>Our mission is to enhance the health of the planet and our communities by
>promoting a shift to sustainable construction and development practices
>through leadership, strategic relationships, and education. To learn
>about DCAT's work and how you can support it, please visit our website at
>www.dcat.net
>
>----
>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>technical editing arm.
>
>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>SUBJECT line.
>----


- --
Paul M. Lacinski
GreenSpace Collaborative
Sidehill Farm
Mail: PO Box 107
Packages: 463 Main Street
Ashfield, MA 01330 USA
(001) 413 628 3800

View excerpts from Serious Straw Bale at:
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.chelseagreen.com/2004/items/seriousstrawbale";>http://www.chelseagreen.com/2004/items/seriousstrawbale</a>

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