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GSBN: Digest for 12/14/04



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---------------------------------------------------------------------


-> Re: GSBN:Interesting test results
     by "Martin Oehlmann" martin.oehlmann@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
     by billc_lists@...
-> Recap on what I learned on lime
     by forum@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
     by "Chug." chug@...
-> Re: GSBN:Nouveau Myth in the making...?
     by forum@...
-> Re: GSBN:Recap on what I learned on lime
     by "Martin Oehlmann" martin.oehlmann@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
     by Rene Dalmeijer rene.dalmeijer@...
-> Re: Proposal
     by Derek Roff derek@...
-> Re: GSBN:Interesting test results and some more.
     by Paul Lacinski paul@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
     by Paul Lacinski paul@...
-> Re: GSBN:Nouveau Myth in the making...?
     by Judyknox42@...
-> Re: GSBN:Nouveau Myth in the making...?
     by "Lars Keller" larskeller@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
     by billc_lists@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 02:39:21 -0600
From: "Martin Oehlmann" martin.oehlmann@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Interesting test results

Chris,

Hi Chris, the maximum of 10 mm per layer seems to be necessary for that
capillary break. Capillary breaks can be reached already by say 5 rather
thin layers (1-2 mm) applied by brush. Thats interesting for clay protection
of clay stuccos. This works very well in Ouwerkerk.

The drying period in between the layers varies according the hydraulic
component, the moisture in the air, the sunshine and of course the
thickness. Quick hardening through sunshine has some negative effect too.
The best is to ask the producer about specifics, as there is a range of
limes with different behaviour.

Martin







- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Magwood" TLSEditor@...
To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: GSBN:Interesting test results


> Martin,
>
> I was always under the impression that lime was built up in thinner
> layers because of the need for the lime plaster to recombine with
> atmospheric CO2. If it goes on too thickly, not only will it crack
> because of it's own weight sliding down the wall before it sets, but
> it won't cure fully because the stuff that's buried deep won't
> carbonize properly. But somebody with more lime knowledge might be
> able to shed more light on this subject!
>
> I think what the testing at Queen's suggests is that regardless of
> the kind of plaster or its final compressive strength, the thicker it
> goes on, the stronger the final wall assembly. This is not surprising
> in itself, but what surprised me was that the thickness made so much
> more difference than the plaster strength. Better to have 30mm of
> quite weak plaster than 10mm of super strong stuff. I think it helps
> make the case for earthen plasters, which like to be thick and don't
> cost a lot to make thick, and who cares if they're not quite as
> strong as a cement-based plaster.
>
> Chris
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >for lime one layer should not exceed more than 10 mm due to moisture
> >protection, so building up thickness traditionally is done in layers
> >(normally 3). Does this team is confirming this tradition?
> >
> >Martin
> --
>
>
> ***************************
>
> Chris Magwood / Camel's Back Straw Bale Construction
> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawhomes.ca";>http://www.strawhomes.ca</a>
>
> Interested in bale building? Have you subscribed to
> The Last Straw Journal?
> You should!
>   <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.thelaststraw.org";>http://www.thelaststraw.org</a>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 03:19:10 -0600
From: billc_lists@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal

hi folks,

Ok, it looks like Kuba is a clear winner.  I'll send an invitation out
shortly.

On the other hand, it appears that at least one member has
reservations about inviting Hank Carr.  I haven't followed a whole
lot of the discussions that he has been involved in on "those other
strawbale lists", but if I remember correctly there was some common
sense lacking in design or implementation.  Correct me if I'm wrong
(I haven't gone dug back in the archives yet).

Perhaps we could ask OSBBC who *they* would like to represent them.
Your comments?


I also received a request to join from Kent Wold (WG9
woldgood9@...) who is rather active on the SB-R-Us list (to
the point of being a bit too chatty IMHO).  I think he would probably
be considered in the "interested layman" category.  What think y'all?



- --
Bill Christensen
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 03:59:28 -0600
From: forum@...
Subject: Recap on what I learned on lime

In Europe we distinct 2 types of (natural) lime:
(In Eupope 'non natural' limes are basicly low strength cement)

1. Calcic Lime - CL
Burned limestone with <4% silicium-clay content. Fired at 800-900#176# C
(It seems that 100% pure limestone does not exist in nature).
This lime (called 'A#233#rienne' in France which means 'air') carbonates when
in
contact with the air and therefore needs to be applied in layers of up to 1 or
1.5 cm (very few sources allow 2 cm). A trick of the trade seems to be to add
beer (=CO2) to the mix if on is obliged to go more thicly. How this affects
quality I cannot say, and I have allways preferred to pour it down my mouth.
This type of lime has a very slow curing process. But this is the type of lime
that breaths most. Low strength, but flexible (few cracks, moves somewhat with
the structure)

2. Natural Hydraulic Lime n NHL Fired arround 1100#176# C
> 4% < 20% silicium-clay content
'Hydraulic' because it reacts with water, and is in no need for contact with
the
air. Basicly used for foundations (even those of bridges etc). Its reaction is
faster than that of Calcic Lime, it is stronger and less air passes through
it.
Usually not advised for plastering, unless for fa#231#ades that receive
excessive
amounts of rain.
This (hydraulic) difference is very important as it was discovered by a
Frenchman (Louis Vicat) in 1913 ;-)

4-8%  silicium-clay content  NHL 2
8-14% silicium-clay content  NHL 3.5
14-19% silicium-clay content  NHL 5

* Lime allways has to be extinquished by adding water to the lime. In the case
of Calcic Lime (CL) this can be done on site and left to slake. For this
purpose it needs to be under water in order to avoid contact with the air.
* Lime should not be allowed to dry before curing (which is a reaction, not a
drying process) is well set in as drying disturbs the curing procces. This is
most delicate for CL as it has a longer drying p#233#riod. Soak the support
well
the day before and several hours before plastering. If needed mist again just
before plastering, but take care not to add too much water. Avoid direct sun,
too much wind and freezing.
* Lime can crack when to high a dose of lime or clay is used or when thickness
varies
* Non throweled lime plaster can soak up water and let it pass trhough.
Throweling closes the poores. A smooth surface makes the water run down.

Then there is cement, Fired arround 1300-1400#176#C
More or less the same stuff as hydraulic lime, but fired at slightly higher
temperatures and an even higer silicium-clay content. >20%
It reacts in contact with water, it reacts even faster than NHL and is
stronger.
It lets less air pass through than NHL.
Also, it is not extinquished as is lime, but rather it is milled to make it
into
a powder.

To finish it off:
NHL-Z
Hydraulic lime that contains (no more than 20%) cement

HL
Hydraulic lime that is not natural. (basicly blends)

Clay and lime.
In the old days, lime was mixed with earth, basicly a type of earth that would
work well as an earthen plaster or (more commonly) a type of earth that
contains too litte clay to make it work as a plaster. The clay gives colour to
the otherwise white (CL) or grey (NHL) lime plaster. When an earth contained
to
much clay sand was added.
But: The clay also has a chemical reaction with the lime or vice versa (?)
Anyway, the lime destroys the binding properties of the clay. This is why a
eathen plaster does not get stronger just by adding a bit of lime. Enough lime
needs to be added so that lime wins the struggle.

How to determine how much lime to use (on clean or unwashed sand):
Take 2 buckets and fill them both to the same level.
One with the sand, on with water.
Pour the water on the sand until the water reaches the level of the sand
Wait 1 hour, add water if it has 'sunken'
Calculate how much water was added to the sand, relative to volume of sand.

Others suggest:
1st  layer (like a thick soup) 5 vol. Lime for 10 Sand
2nd layer 4 lime n 10 sand
3rd layer 3 lime n 10 sand
This is supposed to avoid having cracks one over the other

Pascal Th#233#paut (who works as a proffesional SB builder in France) uses:
1 lime (straight out of the bag) for 3 sand
First layer : 50% Hydraulic lime (NHL)  50 % Calcic lime (CL)
Second and third layer only Calcic lime (CL)
The hydraulic lime makes the plaster set more quicly so the second layer can
be
applied soon.

Lime is wonderful, Earth is a miracle !

Plaster on,
Andr#233#


Selon Chris Magwood TLSEditor@...:

> Martin,
>
> I was always under the impression that lime was built up in thinner
> layers because of the need for the lime plaster to recombine with
> atmospheric CO2. If it goes on too thickly, not only will it crack
> because of it's own weight sliding down the wall before it sets, but
> it won't cure fully because the stuff that's buried deep won't
> carbonize properly. But somebody with more lime knowledge might be
> able to shed more light on this subject!
>
> I think what the testing at Queen's suggests is that regardless of
> the kind of plaster or its final compressive strength, the thicker it
> goes on, the stronger the final wall assembly. This is not surprising
> in itself, but what surprised me was that the thickness made so much
> more difference than the plaster strength. Better to have 30mm of
> quite weak plaster than 10mm of super strong stuff. I think it helps
> make the case for earthen plasters, which like to be thick and don't
> cost a lot to make thick, and who cares if they're not quite as
> strong as a cement-based plaster.
>
> Chris
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >for lime one layer should not exceed more than 10 mm due to moisture
> >protection, so building up thickness traditionally is done in layers
> >(normally 3). Does this team is confirming this tradition?
> >
> >Martin
> --
>
>
> ***************************
>
> Chris Magwood / Camel's Back Straw Bale Construction
> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawhomes.ca";>http://www.strawhomes.ca</a>
>
> Interested in bale building? Have you subscribed to
> The Last Straw Journal?
> You should!
>   <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.thelaststraw.org";>http://www.thelaststraw.org</a>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as
> an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 04:16:11 -0600
From: "Chug." chug@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal

Hi Bill,

Sorry I thought Hank Carr was a key individual and representative of the
regional straw construction
organization(OSBBC), but if there are objections, then, as you suggest, ask
OSBBC who they would
like to represent them.

regards
Chug
chug@...
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawbale-building.co.uk/";>http://www.strawbale-building.co.uk/</a>
.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: billc_lists@...
To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal


hi folks,

Ok, it looks like Kuba is a clear winner.  I'll send an invitation out
shortly.

On the other hand, it appears that at least one member has
reservations about inviting Hank Carr.  I haven't followed a whole
lot of the discussions that he has been involved in on "those other
strawbale lists", but if I remember correctly there was some common
sense lacking in design or implementation.  Correct me if I'm wrong
(I haven't gone dug back in the archives yet).

Perhaps we could ask OSBBC who *they* would like to represent them.
Your comments?


I also received a request to join from Kent Wold (WG9
woldgood9@...) who is rather active on the SB-R-Us list (to
the point of being a bit too chatty IMHO).  I think he would probably
be considered in the "interested layman" category.  What think y'all?



- --
Bill Christensen
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
- ----
GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
regional straw
construction organizations. The costs of operating this list are underwritten
by The Last Straw
Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and technical
editing arm.

For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
email to
GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
- ----





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 04:25:02 -0600
From: forum@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Nouveau Myth in the making...?

Hi John et al,

Feel free to copy to SB-R us.

Also check out our quick and dirty cabin(SB and pallets):
www.lamaisonenpaille.com 'galeries' and click 'Une cabane vite faite'.

Children workshop:
- - It was fun
- - The roof took me too much time (as we decided what to do on the spot; a
pr#233#fab
roof would be better for this occaison)
- - Children don't want to work (as Chris Magwood points out in his article in
TLS), they want to dream and play. Mud plaster needs parents that come to work
(to mix the plaster and to make the m<=)!
- - The veranda is as important as is the cabin

Antonin (our son, almost 2 years old now) enjoys his cabin, he knows and
appr#233#ciates earth plaster and gives 'guided tours' of his cabin to his
visitors.

For the moment I don't intend to repeat the exp#233#rience. However, we have
big
plans: Giving guided tours of our SB house (with lots of earthen plaster) +
the
cabin to school-children - explain straw &amp; earth as a construction
mat#233#rial
(many of them live in a limestone house that is mortared with earth)and have
'em play with earth (make miniature constructions/sculptures) and clay paint
(madalas).


As for War and gloom: I keep my eyes on the 20% that proceed the 80% who
follow.
And you, my dear friend, are part of that 20%!

Au revoir,
Andr#233#



Selon John Glassford huffnpuff@...:

> G 'day Andre and Coralie
>
> What a great story mate and congratulations on the success of the book.
>  Love a copy one day let me know how much?
>
> I hope you do not mind me copying this news to the SB R-us mob as I am
> sure that they would be interested.  Every now and then one needs
> inspiration to get over the constant news of war, gloom and doom and I
> was getting a wee bit down and wondering if ever we would get straw bale
> to the people that need it most, the 12 million orphans of Africa, just
> digressing chaps.
>
> Anyhow I had a look at Andres and Coralie's web site La Maison en Paille:
>
> www.lamaisonenpaille.com
>
> In it I found under Galeries and then under Cabane pours enfants a
> lovely storey on the building of a straw bale cabin for children.  The
> photos tell it all and it has made my day and given me inspiration to do
> the same when I go back to Durban and Cape Town to run two workshops
> next July.  We will be building a cottage for an AIDS carer at Lean on Me:
>
> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.wecare4africa.com/";>http://www.wecare4africa.com/</a>
>
> The other workshop will be in the township of Imizamo Yethu in Hout Bay,
> Cape Town.  Having looked at the children's cabin Andre I was motivated
> to conduct the workshops for the children and with the children.  Any
> volunteers to come over to Durban and Cape Town next year?  Just thought
> that I would say thanks for the wonderful web site and for the story mate.
>
> Warmest greetings
> The Straw Wolf
> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.maps.coolamonrotary.com/";>http://www.maps.coolamonrotary.com/</a>
> 61 2 6927 6027
>
> Here is Andres post to GSBN.
>
> Hi all,
>
> Coralie and I just participated in the first national Ecological Building
> Fair
> in Paris. (Of course the incredible Tom Rijven and his groupies were present
> also).
> It was a great succes, it was held in one of those enormous halls that was
in
> great contrast with the content offered during the fair.
> Almost 11.000 visitors!
>
> Coralie and I presented our SB book (+CD-Rom)that we managed to finish 1 day
> before the event (OK, it took some overtime to be ready, but hey... PARIS!!)
> We sold 260 copies during the 3 days and got lots of nice feedback.
> For those of you who participated in the making of this book, your copie
will
> be
> sent out this week! So buy a dictionarry ! (or type it all out on Babelfish
> as
> Chug cleaverly pointed out)
>
> For the moment we will be the only selling point (La Maison en Paille is the
> editor) and I don't know what the international postal rates are as yet. We
> sell it (book+CD) for 20 Euros (22,65 Euros including postage for la douce
> France).
> Anybody interested to do some reselling for Quebec/Canada?
>
> Anyway, this book is not the Myth that the title refers to.
> On the trade fair I spoke to a knowingly gentleman that sells ecological
> products to treat wood against termites and other wood eating critters. He
> claims that it is common knowledge amongst elder farmers that these insects
> do
> not attack the wood of the sheds where straw is (or was!) stored. The
> buildings
> just next to it are eaten, but not the straw storage sheds.
> He even claims that this knowledge is used to date buildings. But I did not
> quite understand how.
> He thinks some gas must be comming out of the (dry!) straw that treats the
> wood.
>
> He also informed me that Borax kills the termites by killing the germs in
> their
> stomachs and that Borax 'extinguishes' fire because it releases water
> molecules
> when heated.
>
> All comments are welcome.
>
> Au revoir,
> Andr#233#
>
> La Maison en Paille
> www.lamaisonenpaille.com
>
> PS. our website has had its 'spring' cleaning, feel welcome to browse
> arround.
>
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as
> an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- This list does not allow attachments or HTML mail.  ---
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> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
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> ---
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as
> an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 05:11:12 -0600
From: "Martin Oehlmann" martin.oehlmann@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Recap on what I learned on lime

Excellent summary Andre, some addition on the sand:
sharp sand (washed) 1. layer 0.4 mm, 2. layer 0.4-0.3 mm, 3.. layer 0.2
mm...

The hydraulic part in the NHL can vary due to the mixture in the used
limestone, that's why asking the manufacturer for specification.

Greetings,

Martin


- ----- Original Message -----
From: forum@...
To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:33 AM
Subject: GSBN:Recap on what I learned on lime


> In Europe we distinct 2 types of (natural) lime:
> (In Eupope 'non natural' limes are basicly low strength cement)
>
> 1. Calcic Lime - CL
> Burned limestone with <4% silicium-clay content. Fired at 800-900#176# C
> (It seems that 100% pure limestone does not exist in nature).
> This lime (called 'A#233#rienne' in France which means 'air') carbonates
when
in
> contact with the air and therefore needs to be applied in layers of up to
1 or
> 1.5 cm (very few sources allow 2 cm). A trick of the trade seems to be to
add
> beer (=CO2) to the mix if on is obliged to go more thicly. How this
affects
> quality I cannot say, and I have allways preferred to pour it down my
mouth.
> This type of lime has a very slow curing process. But this is the type of
lime
> that breaths most. Low strength, but flexible (few cracks, moves somewhat
with
> the structure)
>
> 2. Natural Hydraulic Lime - NHL Fired arround 1100#176# C
> > 4% < 20% silicium-clay content
> 'Hydraulic' because it reacts with water, and is in no need for contact
with the
> air. Basicly used for foundations (even those of bridges etc). Its
reaction is
> faster than that of Calcic Lime, it is stronger and less air passes
through it.
> Usually not advised for plastering, unless for fa#231#ades that receive
excessive
> amounts of rain.
> This (hydraulic) difference is very important as it was discovered by a
> Frenchman (Louis Vicat) in 1913 ;-)
>
> 4-8%  silicium-clay content  NHL 2
> 8-14% silicium-clay content  NHL 3.5
> 14-19% silicium-clay content  NHL 5
>
> * Lime allways has to be extinquished by adding water to the lime. In the
case
> of Calcic Lime (CL) this can be done on site and left to slake. For this
> purpose it needs to be under water in order to avoid contact with the air.
> * Lime should not be allowed to dry before curing (which is a reaction,
not a
> drying process) is well set in as drying disturbs the curing procces. This
is
> most delicate for CL as it has a longer drying p#233#riod. Soak the support
well
> the day before and several hours before plastering. If needed mist again
just
> before plastering, but take care not to add too much water. Avoid direct
sun,
> too much wind and freezing.
> * Lime can crack when to high a dose of lime or clay is used or when
thickness
> varies
> * Non throweled lime plaster can soak up water and let it pass trhough.
> Throweling closes the poores. A smooth surface makes the water run down.
>
> Then there is cement, Fired arround 1300-1400#176#C
> More or less the same stuff as hydraulic lime, but fired at slightly
higher
> temperatures and an even higer silicium-clay content. >20%
> It reacts in contact with water, it reacts even faster than NHL and is
stronger.
> It lets less air pass through than NHL.
> Also, it is not extinquished as is lime, but rather it is milled to make
it into
> a powder.
>
> To finish it off:
> NHL-Z
> Hydraulic lime that contains (no more than 20%) cement
>
> HL
> Hydraulic lime that is not natural. (basicly blends)
>
> Clay and lime.
> In the old days, lime was mixed with earth, basicly a type of earth that
would
> work well as an earthen plaster or (more commonly) a type of earth that
> contains too litte clay to make it work as a plaster. The clay gives
colour to
> the otherwise white (CL) or grey (NHL) lime plaster. When an earth
contained to
> much clay sand was added.
> But: The clay also has a chemical reaction with the lime or vice versa (?)
> Anyway, the lime destroys the binding properties of the clay. This is why
a
> eathen plaster does not get stronger just by adding a bit of lime. Enough
lime
> needs to be added so that lime wins the struggle.
>
> How to determine how much lime to use (on clean or unwashed sand):
> Take 2 buckets and fill them both to the same level.
> One with the sand, on with water.
> Pour the water on the sand until the water reaches the level of the sand
> Wait 1 hour, add water if it has 'sunken'
> Calculate how much water was added to the sand, relative to volume of
sand.
>
> Others suggest:
> 1st  layer (like a thick soup) 5 vol. Lime for 10 Sand
> 2nd layer 4 lime - 10 sand
> 3rd layer 3 lime - 10 sand
> This is supposed to avoid having cracks one over the other
>
> Pascal Th#233#paut (who works as a proffesional SB builder in France) uses:
> 1 lime (straight out of the bag) for 3 sand
> First layer : 50% Hydraulic lime (NHL)  50 % Calcic lime (CL)
> Second and third layer only Calcic lime (CL)
> The hydraulic lime makes the plaster set more quicly so the second layer
can be
> applied soon.
>
> Lime is wonderful, Earth is a miracle !
>
> Plaster on,
> Andr#233#
>
>
> Selon Chris Magwood TLSEditor@...:
>
> > Martin,
> >
> > I was always under the impression that lime was built up in thinner
> > layers because of the need for the lime plaster to recombine with
> > atmospheric CO2. If it goes on too thickly, not only will it crack
> > because of it's own weight sliding down the wall before it sets, but
> > it won't cure fully because the stuff that's buried deep won't
> > carbonize properly. But somebody with more lime knowledge might be
> > able to shed more light on this subject!
> >
> > I think what the testing at Queen's suggests is that regardless of
> > the kind of plaster or its final compressive strength, the thicker it
> > goes on, the stronger the final wall assembly. This is not surprising
> > in itself, but what surprised me was that the thickness made so much
> > more difference than the plaster strength. Better to have 30mm of
> > quite weak plaster than 10mm of super strong stuff. I think it helps
> > make the case for earthen plasters, which like to be thick and don't
> > cost a lot to make thick, and who cares if they're not quite as
> > strong as a cement-based plaster.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >for lime one layer should not exceed more than 10 mm due to moisture
> > >protection, so building up thickness traditionally is done in layers
> > >(normally 3). Does this team is confirming this tradition?
> > >
> > >Martin
> > --
> >
> >
> > ***************************
> >
> > Chris Magwood / Camel's Back Straw Bale Construction
> > <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawhomes.ca";>http://www.strawhomes.ca</a>
> >
> > Interested in bale building? Have you subscribed to
> > The Last Straw Journal?
> > You should!
> >   <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.thelaststraw.org";>http://www.thelaststraw.org</a>
> > ----
> > GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives
of
> > regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
list
> > are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
GSBN as
> > an advisory board and technical editing arm.
> >
> > For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
send
> > email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> > ----
> >
> >
>
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 06:20:02 -0600
From: Rene Dalmeijer rene.dalmeijer@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal

Hi all,

Regarding new people for GSBN. I have had an extensive exchange with
Hank Carr off list which I thought was constructive and quite useful. I
pledge to invite him as a list member. I know he has had an altercation
with Rob Tom and I respect his objections but I feel we should not
become a list of true believers it is good to have constructive
differences of opinions.

Having said that I would not like to lose Rob Tom on GSBN. At the same
time I would like to make a pledge for being inclusive.  Maybe ask
other OSBBC members what their opinion is of Hank Carr before going
further because I feel there is a potential risk of this blossoming
into a conflict which could be damaging to people and the interests of
our open movement.


On Dec 14, 2004, at 10:53, Chug. wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
> Sorry I thought Hank Carr was a key individual and representative of
> the regional straw construction
> organization(OSBBC), but if there are objections, then, as you
> suggest, ask OSBBC who they would
> like to represent them.
>
> regards
> Chug
> chug@...
> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawbale-building.co.uk/";>http://www.strawbale-building.co.uk/</a>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: billc_lists@...
> To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:00 AM
> Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
>
>
> hi folks,
>
> Ok, it looks like Kuba is a clear winner.  I'll send an invitation out
> shortly.
>
> On the other hand, it appears that at least one member has
> reservations about inviting Hank Carr.  I haven't followed a whole
> lot of the discussions that he has been involved in on "those other
> strawbale lists", but if I remember correctly there was some common
> sense lacking in design or implementation.  Correct me if I'm wrong
> (I haven't gone dug back in the archives yet).
>
> Perhaps we could ask OSBBC who *they* would like to represent them.
> Your comments?
>
>
> I also received a request to join from Kent Wold (WG9
> woldgood9@...) who is rather active on the SB-R-Us list (to
> the point of being a bit too chatty IMHO).  I think he would probably
> be considered in the "interested layman" category.  What think y'all?
>
>
>
> --
> Bill Christensen
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
>
> Green Building Professionals Directory:
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
> Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
> Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
> Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
> representatives of regional straw
> construction organizations. The costs of operating this list are
> underwritten by The Last Straw
> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
> technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
> list, send email to
> GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
> representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
> costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
> technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
> list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
> SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>
Rene



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 17:01:20 -0600
From: Derek Roff derek@...
Subject: Re: Proposal

Like Rene, I do not want to lose Rob Tom on this list.  Rob's knowledge,
contributions and commitment improving strawbale construction methods make
his participation a valuable resource.  I hope that both he and Hank could
participate in GSBN successfully.  If there is an issue with who represents
the geographic area of Ontario, perhaps we could change Rob's GSBN status,
so that he is a representative for the world (or maybe for his home
planet).

Derek Roff

- --On Tuesday, December 14, 2004 12:58 PM +0100 Rene Dalmeijer
rene.dalmeijer@... wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Regarding new people for GSBN. I have had an extensive exchange with
> Hank Carr off list which I thought was constructive and quite useful. I
> pledge to invite him as a list member. I know he has had an altercation
> with Rob Tom and I respect his objections but I feel we should not
> become a list of true believers it is good to have constructive
> differences of opinions.
>
> Having said that I would not like to lose Rob Tom on GSBN. At the same
> time I would like to make a pledge for being inclusive.  Maybe ask
> other OSBBC members what their opinion is of Hank Carr before going
> further because I feel there is a potential risk of this blossoming
> into a conflict which could be damaging to people and the interests of
> our open movement.
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2004, at 10:53, Chug. wrote:
>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> Sorry I thought Hank Carr was a key individual and representative of
>> the regional straw construction
>> organization(OSBBC), but if there are objections, then, as you
>> suggest, ask OSBBC who they would
>> like to represent them.
>>
>> regards
>> Chug
>> chug@...
>> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawbale-building.co.uk/";>http://www.strawbale-building.co.uk/</a>
>> .
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: billc_lists@...
>> To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
>>
>>
>> hi folks,
>>
>> Ok, it looks like Kuba is a clear winner.  I'll send an invitation out
>> shortly.
>>
>> On the other hand, it appears that at least one member has
>> reservations about inviting Hank Carr.  I haven't followed a whole
>> lot of the discussions that he has been involved in on "those other
>> strawbale lists", but if I remember correctly there was some common
>> sense lacking in design or implementation.  Correct me if I'm wrong
>> (I haven't gone dug back in the archives yet).
>>
>> Perhaps we could ask OSBBC who *they* would like to represent them.
>> Your comments?
>>
>>
>> I also received a request to join from Kent Wold (WG9
>> woldgood9@...) who is rather active on the SB-R-Us list (to
>> the point of being a bit too chatty IMHO).  I think he would probably
>> be considered in the "interested layman" category.  What think y'all?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bill Christensen
>> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
>>
>> Green Building Professionals Directory:
>> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
>> Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
>> Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
>> Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
>> Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
>> ----
>> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>> representatives of regional straw
>> construction organizations. The costs of operating this list are
>> underwritten by The Last Straw
>> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>> technical editing arm.
>>
>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>> list, send email to
>> GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> ----
>> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>> representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>> costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>> technical editing arm.
>>
>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>> list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>> SUBJECT line.
>> ----
>>
>>
> Rene
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives
> of regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
> list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of
> the GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>



Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: derek@...



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 17:21:46 -0600
From: Paul Lacinski paul@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Interesting test results and some more.

Hi John,

Our trick for using lime/ sand plasters directly out of the bag is to
keep 1 day ahead on mixing.  As the plaster sits overnight in a
covered bin, the lime becomes noticeably stickier and more plastic
than in freshly-made plaster.  When we spray it one the next day,
workability is improved and cracking greatly decreased.  The extra
labor is zero.

All the best,

Paul


>G 'day Chris
>
>Some very interesting work is being done by Mike Faine and Dr John Zhang
>at the Uni of Western Sydney. You should write to Mike and get a copy of
>his latest paper. I copy here their summary but it makes more sense if
>you read the whole paper.
>
>Mike and Dr John are doing some great work on straw bale and especially
>witth earthen renders.
>
>I still prefer a combination of earthen renders/sand/chaff for the first
>two coats to 40mm and then finish with a mix of earth and lime and chaff
>for the finish coat to 50mm. I find Maudies Magical Mix to be extremely
>strong, highly water repellent and can be coloured with oxides just like
>a pure lime plaster. Also and just as important there is no need to make
>the hydrated lime into a putty, I just use the powder lime straight out
>of the bag. The first time I did this was three years ago and it is
>working a treat, no cracking no moisture problems on an exposed wall..
>
>In our last job we used hydrated plaster lime and sand for all three
>coats straight out of the bag in a powder form and we pumped this mix
>on. So far no cracking has occurred in over 450 sqaure metres of straw
>bale wall. The final coat was a premix with lime/sand/oxide made up for
>us in a factory in Melbourne which we applied by hand. The hydrated lime
>we used was from Melbourne and it was of a very high quality. If we are
>fair dinkum about getting straw bale into main stream we have to use
>methods such as we used in Ballarat. It was very cost effective and very
>fast which pleased the professional builder no end.
>
>Kind regards The Straw Wolf.
><a  target="_blank" href="http://www.maps.coolamonrotary.com/";>http://www.maps.coolamonrotary.com/</a>
>
>Here is Michael and Dr John's Conclusions to their latest testing:
>
>5. Recommendation and conclusions
>
>From these tests there are a number of aspects worth considering. The
>first relates to the construction detail of a straw bale walls. It goes
>without saying that achieving the best pre-compression of the bales (by
>whatever method) is very important. Pinning of the bales by using
>reinforcing rod is#024#overkill#025# but some pinning is required as the wall
>progresses for practical reasons (stability) #019# particularly for the
>two-storey height.
>The location of the top plate in relation to the render finish is
>another important practical aspect. The two early tests allowed for
>loading of the straw bales in compression, as the top plates did not
>directly bear on the render finish. At the safe working load of 40kN the
>deformation (average) for the two-storey wall (cement render) is about
>5mm and for the earth rendered wall about 8mm. This is quite tolerable
>but suggests careful detailing of the finish of the render against
>adjacent surfaces (floor or slab) to avoid cracking of the finish.
>The second aspect worth considering is that of the structural behaviour
>of the test walls. The safe working load limit of 40 kN is approximately
>10 kN above the limits set by the Pima and California Codes. These codes
>may be very conservative and further testing of straw bale walls is
>warranted to determine #024#type#025# characteristics suitable for inclusion
>into building codes. At the ultimate failure load of 73 kN (for the
>two-storey wall) some interesting comments can be made about straw bale
>walls. Once this load limit has been reached straw bale walls compress
>unimpressively, in fact the failure mode was unspectacular.
>It is also clear that a cement render based wall will carry slightly
>more load than an earth render wall (not having any cement component).
>However the earth based render was easier to apply direct to the straw
>wall and does not require a layer of wire mesh to be applied over the
>wall. This saves both time and cost.
>It can be said, from the last test that it is beneficial to load the
>strawbale and the render material directly by supporting the render at
>the bottom plate with a slightly wider top plate ladder frame at the top.
>All the tests record a differential settling of the wall(s) (when
>comparing #024#left#025# and #024#right#025# sides) with the average figure
for
>settlement being used for calculations. Constructing the walls as
>straight and perpendicular as possible and in plane is definitely an
>issue of construction quality and #024#constructability#025#. Care needs to
be
>taken to avoid using bales that may induce some #024#rotation#025# to the
wall
>top plate.
>The addition of the slaked lime to the mix design for the final coat
>(for the earth rendered wall test 2) may or may not be warranted. Some
>authors argue that this helps workability and has #024#self healing#025#
>characteristics to guard against any micro-cracking and possible ingress
>of water.
>Further work needs to be done on both the composition of the render mix
>design and the interaction of the straw to render bond to determine
>exactly how this behaves as a construction material. The bond between
>the straw and the render was observed to be very strong, particularly at
>the time of demolition. These tests have shown that this material is
>suitable for constructing walls for residential purposes from a
>structural point of view.
>
>M.FAINE@...
>
>Mike Faine - Lecturer UWS
>School of Construction Property &amp; Planning
>Locked Bag 1797
>Penrith South DC NSW 1797
>Uni Office phone (02) 98524318 Uni fax (02) 9852 4300
>Mobile 0427406521
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----
>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>technical editing arm.
>



- --
Paul M. Lacinski
GreenSpace Collaborative
Sidehill Farm
Mail: PO Box 107
Packages: 463 Main Street
Ashfield, MA 01330 USA
(001) 413 628 3800

View excerpts from Serious Straw Bale at:
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.chelseagreen.com/2004/items/seriousstrawbale";>http://www.chelseagreen.com/2004/items/seriousstrawbale</a>

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 17:21:54 -0600
From: Paul Lacinski paul@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal

Hi all,

This brings us to a central issue of the public nature of this list,
which has been quietly troubling me for some time.  When we were
considering whether to make the archives public, I wondered whether
the change might lead to any sort of self-censorship on sensitive
issues, a tendency to trim off a few too many sharp edges because of
concerns about liability, making someone feel bad, or sounding like a
jerk in public.  I decided to wait and see what happened, because
openness and a free flow of information seemed more important than
any theoretical drawbacks.

But now we've had a couple of situations that are close.  Under
slightly different circumstances, we would have had to be very
careful what we said about Danny Buck's SB Moisture Problem.  Now as
I was reading through, and everyone was high-fiving the various
nominees, I was just getting to musing on what would happen if I were
to nominate Daffy Duck, when Rob's little bucket of vitriol poured
onto my screen.

The problem is that in discussing new potential members (and in other
not so theoretical situations) we are airing our opinions of other
people's professional reputations.  We have to do this.  The paradox
that I see is an ethical requirement to be honest with each other,
without defaming anyone in public, or releasing information that
could be used by one party or another in lawsuits, etc.

I don't have a great idea for a way out of this bind.  Since I'm not
much of a computer guy, I wonder whether there is some way to deal
with it technologically- a GSBNXXX list whose records are sealed to
the wider public?  My main intention is to intruduce this concern, to
see whether it is shared by others.

And a PS to Chris Magwood- I thought you might like to know that when
I read your announcement about the OS/ISBBC, I immediately and
instinctively hollered so loud that the dog  jumped up and grabbed a
toy, thinking I must be ready to play.  I took her up on the offer.

Paul




>Hi all,
>
>Regarding new people for GSBN. I have had an extensive exchange with
>Hank Carr off list which I thought was constructive and quite useful. I
>pledge to invite him as a list member. I know he has had an altercation
>with Rob Tom and I respect his objections but I feel we should not
>become a list of true believers it is good to have constructive
>differences of opinions.
>
>Having said that I would not like to lose Rob Tom on GSBN. At the same
>time I would like to make a pledge for being inclusive.  Maybe ask
>other OSBBC members what their opinion is of Hank Carr before going
>further because I feel there is a potential risk of this blossoming
>into a conflict which could be damaging to people and the interests of
>our open movement.
>
>
>On Dec 14, 2004, at 10:53, Chug. wrote:
>
>>Hi Bill,
>>
>>Sorry I thought Hank Carr was a key individual and representative of
>>the regional straw construction
>>organization(OSBBC), but if there are objections, then, as you
>>suggest, ask OSBBC who they would
>>like to represent them.
>>
>>regards
>>Chug
>>chug@...
>><a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawbale-building.co.uk/";>http://www.strawbale-building.co.uk/</a>
>>.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: billc_lists@...
>>To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:00 AM
>>Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
>>
>>
>>hi folks,
>>
>>Ok, it looks like Kuba is a clear winner.  I'll send an invitation out
>>shortly.
>>
>>On the other hand, it appears that at least one member has
>>reservations about inviting Hank Carr.  I haven't followed a whole
>>lot of the discussions that he has been involved in on "those other
>>strawbale lists", but if I remember correctly there was some common
>>sense lacking in design or implementation.  Correct me if I'm wrong
>>(I haven't gone dug back in the archives yet).
>>
>>Perhaps we could ask OSBBC who *they* would like to represent them.
>>Your comments?
>>
>>
>>I also received a request to join from Kent Wold (WG9
>>woldgood9@...) who is rather active on the SB-R-Us list (to
>>the point of being a bit too chatty IMHO).  I think he would probably
>>be considered in the "interested layman" category.  What think y'all?
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Bill Christensen
>><<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
>>
>>Green Building Professionals Directory:
>><<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
>>Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
>>Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
>>Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
>>Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
>>----
>>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>>representatives of regional straw
>>construction organizations. The costs of operating this list are
>>underwritten by The Last Straw
>>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>>technical editing arm.
>>
>>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>>list, send email to
>>GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
>>----
>>
>>
>>
>>----
>>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>>technical editing arm.
>>
>>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>>SUBJECT line.
>>----
>>
>Rene
>
>----
>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>technical editing arm.
>



- --
Paul M. Lacinski
GreenSpace Collaborative
Sidehill Farm
Mail: PO Box 107
Packages: 463 Main Street
Ashfield, MA 01330 USA
(001) 413 628 3800

View excerpts from Serious Straw Bale at:
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.chelseagreen.com/2004/items/seriousstrawbale";>http://www.chelseagreen.com/2004/items/seriousstrawbale</a>

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 18:29:20 -0600
From: Judyknox42@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Nouveau Myth in the making...?

Barbara and all,
Yes, rye straw was used to build the church in Arthur, Nebraska in 1928...he
one that's still standing and going strong...
Spread your love around out there over 2005...the world needs it..
Love,
Judy

Judy Knox and Matts Myhrman
Out On Bale
1037 E. Linden St.
Tucson, Az  85719
520-622-6896
judyknox42@...
mattsmyhrman@...

Each of us can and must champion the evolutionary breakthroughs necessary to
sustain all life.  The journey of a champion is difficult, AND our access to a
joyful life.
Judy Knox


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 18:45:29 -0600
From: "Lars Keller" larskeller@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Nouveau Myth in the making...?

Re algaes and straw:

Could it simply be, that the reason for why straw causes algae to disappear in
over-algaed ponds is, that the amount of nitrogen in the pond - which is
probably big due to the algae-problem - goes down as nitrogen is being used as
energy-supply to break down the thrown-in straw ?

Lars Keller

~~~

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Judyknox42@...
To: GSBN@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: GSBN:Nouveau Myth in the making...?


> Barbara and all,
> Yes, rye straw was used to build the church in Arthur, Nebraska in 1928...he
> one that's still standing and going strong...
> Spread your love around out there over 2005...the world needs it..
> Love,
> Judy
> 
> Judy Knox and Matts Myhrman
> Out On Bale
> 1037 E. Linden St.
> Tucson, Az  85719
> 520-622-6896
> judyknox42@...
> mattsmyhrman@...
> 
> Each of us can and must champion the evolutionary breakthroughs necessary to
> sustain all life.  The journey of a champion is difficult, AND our access to
a
> joyful life.
> Judy Knox
> 
> 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Dec 2004 20:16:37 -0600
From: billc_lists@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal

At 5:58 PM -0500 12/14/04, Paul Lacinski wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>This brings us to a central issue of the public nature of this list,
>which has been quietly troubling me for some time.  When we were
>considering whether to make the archives public,
>
>I wonder whether there is some way to deal
>with it technologically- a GSBNXXX list whose records are sealed to
>the wider public?  My main intention is to intruduce this concern, to
>see whether it is shared by others.

Good points.

One thing that is possible is for me to go in and delete any posts in
the archives which could be considered inflammatory, hurtful, or
legally troubling.  I don't think I can edit the posts individually
on Yahoo (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so it's an all or nothing
thing.  If a post had mixed subjects, that could make it a little
tricky.

I'm not in favor of starting a second, secret GSBN list, and I think
several others - StrawWolf in particular - would grouse and complain
about that.

Looking forward - perhaps fairly far forward, it all depends upon my
workload - I hope to bring the archives of the list back to our own
server, at which point I'd have greater ability to edit  sensitive
content without deleting an otherwise important/useful information.



- --
Bill Christensen
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>

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