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GSBN: Digest for 12/16/04



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-> Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
     by Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
-> Re: Lime Powder Hydrate 
     by John Glassford huffnpuff@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Lime Powder Hydrate
     by forum@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
     by Catherine Wanek blackrange@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal
     by Maurice Bennett mbenn1035@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 2004 01:14:34 -0600
From: Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal

The discussion on the list about the inclusion of Hank Carr has brought out
many important points about the purpose of the GSBN, the importance of
representation from each geographical area or network, and the contributions
of its participants.  I agree with Bill C's comments below that we not
invite him to join GSBN and recommend that we include Kim Thompson from Nova
Scotia.

Joyce

on 12.15.2004 1:14 PM, billc_lists@...
billc_lists@...:

> At 1:17 PM -0500 12/15/04, Judyknox42@...:
>
>> What we do think is crucial is that there is a
>> participant from each geographical area or network that makes sure
>> information is being passed on to others in that area.  But beyond
>> that, we are much
>> more interested in the quality of the contributions participants make to a
>> free-flowing dialogue.  None of us want the GSBN to turn into a chat room,
>> and
>> should that begin to happen, we need to address it.
>
>
>> ...The quality and content of a free-flowing dialogue that helps us
>> all move forward in our work is the point.
>> We don't know Hank, but have no reason not to welcome him if other members
of
> the GSBN feel he can contribute at that level.
>
> I agree wholeheartedly with Judy's point that we don't need to
> restrict ourselves to some quota from different locations (though I'd
> certainly like to see more representation from certain areas of the
> world), and that what really matters is the quality and content of
> discussion.
>
> That said, another list member's comments to me offline and presented
> here anonymously:
>
> "The question of Hank is less clear. Obviously he's a busy and
> dedicated person with the best intentions, but he scares me in the
> same way that a certain couple of guys in Minnesota used to scare me.
> (You'll recall that one of their projects - a very well-intended but
> excruciatingly-flawed SB house built in south Minneapolis - ended up
> torn down a couple years later because of moisture problems. They
> ignored hard-won consensus- and experience-derived wisdom and best
> practices of the SB community, preferring to "pioneer" techniques and
> designs that relied on flawed assumptions and poor judgement.
> Eventually they posted a message on their website saying that they
> didn't have anything to do with strawbale anymore; and now their
> website appears to be gone completely.) While I can't deny that Hank
> is moving and shaking, I'm not comfortable that he's not a bull in a
> china shop. Where SB is concerned, when having a vision blurs with
> solipsism, I cringe. But then again, maybe his apparent belligerence
> would be tempered in the presence of the august GSBNers. If it comes
> down to a choice between RT and him, I'd choose RT in a heartbeat."
>
>
> (billc again)
> Rob has been the most vocal in his opposition to having Hank join,
> but several others who know him through list discussions or otherwise
> have some reservations.  I suggest that unless we get some strong
> arguments from people who are familiar with Hank and feel that his
> inclusion in the list would be a positive thing overall, that we
> don't invite him to join GSBN at present.
>
> --
> Bill Christensen
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
>
> Green Building Professionals Directory: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
> Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
> Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
> Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as
> an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 2004 04:19:31 -0600
From: John Glassford huffnpuff@...
Subject: Re: Lime Powder Hydrate 

Paul Lacinski wrote:

> Our trick for using lime/ sand plasters directly out of the bag is to
> keep 1 day ahead on mixing.  As the plaster sits overnight in a
> covered bin, the lime becomes noticeably stickier and more plastic
> than in freshly-made plaster.  When we spray it one the next day,
> workability is improved and cracking greatly decreased.  The extra
> labor is zero.

G 'day Paul

I have tried this but found it to be one step too many in the process
with no appreciable benefits.  I also found that the mix was too wet and
as a consequence caused some mosaic cracking.  I have found by using the
powder straight from the bag I get an even mix, I can control the level
of moisture easier and I can pre-mix the lime/sand and oxide, bag it and
just add water!!  That is a product that is a true pre-mix that can be
sold onto straw bale renderers with a guaranteed colour.

Anyhow we keep improving ever so slowly but this step has been a big one
for us.

Kind regards TSW.
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.maps.coolamonrotary.com/";>http://www.maps.coolamonrotary.com/</a>
61 2 6927 6027








----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 2004 06:16:54 -0600
From: forum@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Lime Powder Hydrate

> ...and I can pre-mix the lime/sand and oxide, bag it and
> just add water!!  That is a product that is a true pre-mix that can be
> sold onto straw bale renderers with a guaranteed colour.

Wow, you aussies have some dry sand out there. The sand we get locally is to
moist for pre-mixing with lime (not to mention the unwashed sand that still
contains some clay)

As for the premixing method Paul proposes, some limes seem 'fatter/creamier'
than others, so it makes sense that it would work with some limes and not with
others.

Warm greetings
Andr#233#


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 2004 20:09:05 -0600
From: Catherine Wanek blackrange@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal

I go along with the consensus so far about not adding Hank Carr to the GSBN
- -- at least for the time being.  Ontario is currently amply and well
represented on this list.

As for Kim Thompson -- it happens she was just visiting here at the Black
Range, and we discussed the GSBN.  She was actually on the list at the
beginning of the GSBN, but dropped off due to time constraints.  However,
now I think she might be persuaded to come back.

Rob T -- let me suggest that you contact Kim T. to invite her back.  I
expect that we would have total agreement to having Kim back on this list.

As for Habib Gonzales, I feel sure that he must have been on the list from
the beginning too -- he's so very respected for his strawbale work.  I will
contact him about it.

As for archives being open to the ether, I favor a snipped version (via
Bill C's august judgement) that edits anything potentially hurtful .   That
said, ideally the collective wisdom expressed on this list will continue to
make its way in a condensed form into the pages of The Last Straw
Journal.    Perhaps we should require anyone who wants to view the GSBN
archives, first be a subscriber to TLS .......;-)

Happy solstice to you all,
Catherine

At 12:51 AM 12/16/04 -0600, you wrote:
>The discussion on the list about the inclusion of Hank Carr has brought out
>many important points about the purpose of the GSBN, the importance of
>representation from each geographical area or network, and the contributions
>of its participants.  I agree with Bill C's comments below that we not
>invite him to join GSBN and recommend that we include Kim Thompson from Nova
>Scotia.
>
>Joyce
>
>on 12.15.2004 1:14 PM, billc_lists@...
>billc_lists@...:
>
> > At 1:17 PM -0500 12/15/04, Judyknox42@...:
> >
> >> What we do think is crucial is that there is a
> >> participant from each geographical area or network that makes sure
> >> information is being passed on to others in that area.  But beyond
> >> that, we are much
> >> more interested in the quality of the contributions participants make to
a
> >> free-flowing dialogue.  None of us want the GSBN to turn into a chat
room,
> >> and
> >> should that begin to happen, we need to address it.
> >
> >
> >> ...The quality and content of a free-flowing dialogue that helps us
> >> all move forward in our work is the point.
> >> We don't know Hank, but have no reason not to welcome him if other
> members of
> > the GSBN feel he can contribute at that level.
> >
> > I agree wholeheartedly with Judy's point that we don't need to
> > restrict ourselves to some quota from different locations (though I'd
> > certainly like to see more representation from certain areas of the
> > world), and that what really matters is the quality and content of
> > discussion.
> >
> > That said, another list member's comments to me offline and presented
> > here anonymously:
> >
> > "The question of Hank is less clear. Obviously he's a busy and
> > dedicated person with the best intentions, but he scares me in the
> > same way that a certain couple of guys in Minnesota used to scare me.
> > (You'll recall that one of their projects - a very well-intended but
> > excruciatingly-flawed SB house built in south Minneapolis - ended up
> > torn down a couple years later because of moisture problems. They
> > ignored hard-won consensus- and experience-derived wisdom and best
> > practices of the SB community, preferring to "pioneer" techniques and
> > designs that relied on flawed assumptions and poor judgement.
> > Eventually they posted a message on their website saying that they
> > didn't have anything to do with strawbale anymore; and now their
> > website appears to be gone completely.) While I can't deny that Hank
> > is moving and shaking, I'm not comfortable that he's not a bull in a
> > china shop. Where SB is concerned, when having a vision blurs with
> > solipsism, I cringe. But then again, maybe his apparent belligerence
> > would be tempered in the presence of the august GSBNers. If it comes
> > down to a choice between RT and him, I'd choose RT in a heartbeat."
> >
> >
> > (billc again)
> > Rob has been the most vocal in his opposition to having Hank join,
> > but several others who know him through list discussions or otherwise
> > have some reservations.  I suggest that unless we get some strong
> > arguments from people who are familiar with Hank and feel that his
> > inclusion in the list would be a positive thing overall, that we
> > don't invite him to join GSBN at present.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Christensen
> > <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
> >
> > Green Building Professionals Directory:
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
> > Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
> > Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
> > Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> > Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> > ----
> > GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> > regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
list
> > are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
> GSBN as
> > an advisory board and technical editing arm.
> >
> > For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send
> > email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> > ----
> >
>
>----
>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
>regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
>list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
>GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
>send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
>----


- --- This list does not allow attachments or HTML mail.  ---
- ---The notes below outline what was removed. ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
- ---


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Dec 2004 20:20:29 -0600
From: Maurice Bennett mbenn1035@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Proposal

I don't know Hank Carr so I defer to the group -
however I would strongly support Kim Thompson and
Habib being added to the list.

Maurice Bennett
CASBA


- --- Catherine Wanek blackrange@... wrote:

> I go along with the consensus so far about not
> adding Hank Carr to the GSBN
> -- at least for the time being.  Ontario is
> currently amply and well
> represented on this list.
>
> As for Kim Thompson -- it happens she was just
> visiting here at the Black
> Range, and we discussed the GSBN.  She was actually
> on the list at the
> beginning of the GSBN, but dropped off due to time
> constraints.  However,
> now I think she might be persuaded to come back.
>
> Rob T -- let me suggest that you contact Kim T. to
> invite her back.  I
> expect that we would have total agreement to having
> Kim back on this list.
>
> As for Habib Gonzales, I feel sure that he must have
> been on the list from
> the beginning too -- he's so very respected for his
> strawbale work.  I will
> contact him about it.
>
> As for archives being open to the ether, I favor a
> snipped version (via
> Bill C's august judgement) that edits anything
> potentially hurtful .   That
> said, ideally the collective wisdom expressed on
> this list will continue to
> make its way in a condensed form into the pages of
> The Last Straw
> Journal.    Perhaps we should require anyone who
> wants to view the GSBN
> archives, first be a subscriber to TLS .......;-)
>
> Happy solstice to you all,
> Catherine
>
> At 12:51 AM 12/16/04 -0600, you wrote:
> >The discussion on the list about the inclusion of
> Hank Carr has brought out
> >many important points about the purpose of the
> GSBN, the importance of
> >representation from each geographical area or
> network, and the contributions
> >of its participants.  I agree with Bill C's
> comments below that we not
> >invite him to join GSBN and recommend that we
> include Kim Thompson from Nova
> >Scotia.
> >
> >Joyce
> >
> >on 12.15.2004 1:14 PM, billc_lists@...
> at
> >billc_lists@...:
> >
> > > At 1:17 PM -0500 12/15/04, Judyknox42@...
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> What we do think is crucial is that there is a
> > >> participant from each geographical area or
> network that makes sure
> > >> information is being passed on to others in
> that area.  But beyond
> > >> that, we are much
> > >> more interested in the quality of the
> contributions participants make to a
> > >> free-flowing dialogue.  None of us want the
> GSBN to turn into a chat room,
> > >> and
> > >> should that begin to happen, we need to address
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > >> ...The quality and content of a free-flowing
> dialogue that helps us
> > >> all move forward in our work is the point.
> > >> We don't know Hank, but have no reason not to
> welcome him if other
> > members of
> > > the GSBN feel he can contribute at that level.
> > >
> > > I agree wholeheartedly with Judy's point that we
> don't need to
> > > restrict ourselves to some quota from different
> locations (though I'd
> > > certainly like to see more representation from
> certain areas of the
> > > world), and that what really matters is the
> quality and content of
> > > discussion.
> > >
> > > That said, another list member's comments to me
> offline and presented
> > > here anonymously:
> > >
> > > "The question of Hank is less clear. Obviously
> he's a busy and
> > > dedicated person with the best intentions, but
> he scares me in the
> > > same way that a certain couple of guys in
> Minnesota used to scare me.
> > > (You'll recall that one of their projects - a
> very well-intended but
> > > excruciatingly-flawed SB house built in south
> Minneapolis - ended up
> > > torn down a couple years later because of
> moisture problems. They
> > > ignored hard-won consensus- and
> experience-derived wisdom and best
> > > practices of the SB community, preferring to
> "pioneer" techniques and
> > > designs that relied on flawed assumptions and
> poor judgement.
> > > Eventually they posted a message on their
> website saying that they
> > > didn't have anything to do with strawbale
> anymore; and now their
> > > website appears to be gone completely.) While I
> can't deny that Hank
> > > is moving and shaking, I'm not comfortable that
> he's not a bull in a
> > > china shop. Where SB is concerned, when having a
> vision blurs with
> > > solipsism, I cringe. But then again, maybe his
> apparent belligerence
> > > would be tempered in the presence of the august
> GSBNers. If it comes
> > > down to a choice between RT and him, I'd choose
> RT in a heartbeat."
> > >
> > >
> > > (billc again)
> > > Rob has been the most vocal in his opposition to
> having Hank join,
> > > but several others who know him through list
> discussions or otherwise
> > > have some reservations.  I suggest that unless
> we get some strong
> > > arguments from people who are familiar with Hank
> and feel that his
> > > inclusion in the list would be a positive thing
> overall, that we
> > > don't invite him to join GSBN at present.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bill Christensen
> > > <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
> > >
> > > Green Building Professionals Directory:
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
> > > Sustainable Building Calendar:
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
> > > Green Real Estate:
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
> > > Straw Bale Registry:
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> > > Books/videos/software:
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> > > ----
> > > GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key
> individuals and representatives of
> > > regional straw construction organizations. The
> costs of operating this list
> > > are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in
> exchange for use of the
> > GSBN as
> > > an advisory board and technical editing arm.
> > >
> > > For instructions on joining, leaving, or
> otherwise using the GSBN list,
> > send
> > > email to GSBN@...
> in the SUBJECT line.
> > > ----
> > >
> >
> >----
> >GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals
> and representatives of
> >regional straw construction organizations. The
> costs of operating this
> >list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in
> exchange for use of the
> >GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing
> arm.
> >
> >For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise
> using the GSBN list,
> >send email to GSBN@...
> in the SUBJECT line.
> >----
>
>
> --- This list does not allow attachments or HTML
> mail.  ---
> ---The notes below outline what was removed. ---
> multipart/alternative
>
=== message truncated ===

=====
Maurice and Joy Bennett


You must be the change you want to see in the world.   Gandhi




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