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GSBN: Digest for 3/7/06



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---------------------------------------------------------------------


-> Re: PROPOSAL: electronic bulletin
     by archilogic@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: FW: straw animal sheds and/or houses
     by Andrew Webb Architect design@...
-> GSBN:Re: FW: straw animal sheds and/or houses
     by "Andre de Bouter" forum@...
-> GSBN:Re: FW: straw animal sheds and/or houses
     by "Andre de Bouter" forum@...
-> Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by Chris Magwood cmagwood@...
-> RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by jswearingen@...
-> RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by billc_lists@...
-> RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by jswearingen@...
-> Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by "Bohdan Dorniak & Co Pty Ltd" bdco@...
-> RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by jswearingen@...
-> RE: GSBN:PROPOSAL: electronic bulletin
     by "Janet Armstrong Johnston" janetjohnstn@...
-> SB animal sheds
     by Andrew Webb design@...
-> Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by Chris Magwood cmagwood@...
-> GSBN:SB animal sheds
     by "Bob Bolles" Bob@...
-> Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by Chris Magwood cmagwood@...
-> Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
     by Laura Bartels laura@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 01:13:18 -0600
From: archilogic@...
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: electronic bulletin

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 00:23:02 -0500, GSBN GSBN@...
wrote:
> Date: 5 Mar 2006 12:33:57 -0600
> From: duncan@...
> Subject:

> Please say yes or no if you have an opinion

Although the general consensus seems to be "yes" I'm going to say "no"
anyway.

The idea is great, in the sense that it is convenient, not unlike numerous
other bulletins that show up in my mailbox.

Ostensibly, they keep me abreast of what's going on "out there" without my
having to engage anyone on a personal level or familiarise myself with the
subjects beyond a hand-waving acquaintance -- sort of like an art history
course.

The SB World News in the email equivalent of 10 second sound bytes.
It was bound to happen sooner or later.

But I have to admit, I don't even bother skimming over 80% of those other
bulletins anymore.
They arrive in the mailbox every week, linger in the "inbox" for awhile
until they get lost in the other unread mail and then eventually get
deleted without being read when mailbox cleaning time rolls around.
Easy come, easy go. Eh ?

=== * ===
Rob Tom
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
<ArchiLogic at chaffyahoo dot ca>
(winnow the chaff  from my edress in your reply)

Please visit   <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.mercycorps.org/";>http://www.mercycorps.org/</a>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 02:55:40 -0600
From: Andrew Webb Architect design@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: FW: straw animal sheds and/or houses

Good insulation is of no use if there is no heat inside the building in
the first place.  In the case of animal sheds that comes from either
body heat or the sun.  Unless you have a reliable local supply of straw
or unlimited resources, which I doubt, I would spend limited money and
energy on getting solar collectors - plastic or, ideally, glass to the
region and build in earth.  The animals won't have any body heat if they
don't have food, so instead of transporting in straw, fill the trucks
with hay.  Use the topography to your advantage and dig animal sheds
into the sides of hills so you need few walls.

Straw would be great to have there but the logistical issues need to be
looked at seriously.  I hope it is feasible but I have my doubts.
Baling is another major hurdle there and Greg Zaller has a protoype
hand-baling press I believe.  Don't discount local knowledge - there are
most likely very good reasons why they build the way they do.  Better to
build on that rather than subvert it.

Another cheap and easy method to consider if they have sufficient willow
trees is wattle and daub.  I built chicken coops this way in the
neighbouring Kargil district which were successful by all accounts; the
key is the heat source.

- - Andrew


Kelly Lerner wrote:

> Hi Tim,
> Straw-bale is a great building material for housing both animals and
> people. Load-bearing walls can be constructed of straw bales or of
> straw-rich adobe type blocks (if that is closer to the vernacular
> building
> tradition). Straw bale walls must be covered with a plaster (a clay earth
> will do) to protect it from animals.  I know one builder who is actually
> planning on a straw-bale project in Pakistan - Greg Zaller
> gregzaller@.... I believe he will be there in April. It
> sounds
> like it would be good for you'all to connect. Good luck.
>
> Kelly
>
>> From: Tim Tim.Vaessen@...
>> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:29:16 +0430
>> To: thelaststraw@...
>> Subject: straw animal sheds and/or houses
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Just a wild shot, but I am looking for somebody who could give me some
>> general idea about the possibility of cheap, easy to build sheds for
>> farm
>> animals in the earthquake zone of Pakistan. Traditionally many farmers
>> make sheds of thick walls and roofs of clay to keep the cold out in
>> winter.
>> What would be the possibility of constructing easily, quickly and
>> cheaply
>> well isolated animal sheds of straw or other natural resources? And
>> while
>> we are at it, what about houses for the farmers themselves?
>> One issue is ofcourse that we would not want the animals to eat the
>> walls.
>>
>> Could you connect me with somebody?
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim Vaessen, Sr. Emergency and Rehabilitation Coordinator
>> FAO Pakistan/Afghanistan;Tel.PAK:92(0)300 501 5527; AFG:93(0)70 285266
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> *****************************************************
> Kelly Lerner, Architect
> One World Design
> 509-838-8812
> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.one-world-design.com";>http://www.one-world-design.com</a>
> klerner@...
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>  text/plain (text body -- kept)
>  text/html
> ---
> ----

>
>
>
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 09:12:11 -0600
From: "Andre de Bouter" forum@...
Subject: GSBN:Re: FW: straw animal sheds and/or houses

I agree on the point of avoiding SB if straw is not readily available. However
I
just want to mention that it is extreemly simple to make bales with just a few
planks and 2 feet. After all, a straw bale is only compacted straw tied by 2
or
3 strings. We made them in South india (rice straw, and lots of it, but no
baling machines). See
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.lamaisonenpaille.com/Galeries/Stages/Stage-Auroville.htm";>http://www.lamaisonenpaille.com/Galeries/Stages/Stage-Auroville.htm</a> Though we
used a post(granit) and beam structure I was impressed by the density of these
bales. Some local testing would need to be done in order to see what weight
they could take (and/or what size bales should be made to carry the weight).

Did you all know that Kelly Lerner (and all 'her little helpers') won the
"World
Habitat Award" for the China SB project:
Hong Kong, China-On October 3rd, 2005, the Adventist Development and Relief
Agency office in China (ADRA China) received the 2005 World Habitat Award,
from
the Building and Social Housing Foundation of Great Britain for providing
practical and innovative solutions to current housing needs and problems.
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.interaction.org/newswire/detail.php?id=4535";>http://www.interaction.org/newswire/detail.php?id=4535</a>

Huray for Kelly (and all those who made this project a reality)!

bye,

Andr#233#
La Maison en Paille



Selon Andrew Webb Architect design@...:

> Good insulation is of no use if there is no heat inside the building in
> the first place.  In the case of animal sheds that comes from either
> body heat or the sun.  Unless you have a reliable local supply of straw
> or unlimited resources, which I doubt, I would spend limited money and
> energy on getting solar collectors - plastic or, ideally, glass to the
> region and build in earth.  The animals won't have any body heat if they
> don't have food, so instead of transporting in straw, fill the trucks
> with hay.  Use the topography to your advantage and dig animal sheds
> into the sides of hills so you need few walls.
>
> Straw would be great to have there but the logistical issues need to be
> looked at seriously.  I hope it is feasible but I have my doubts.
> Baling is another major hurdle there and Greg Zaller has a protoype
> hand-baling press I believe.  Don't discount local knowledge - there are
> most likely very good reasons why they build the way they do.  Better to
> build on that rather than subvert it.
>
> Another cheap and easy method to consider if they have sufficient willow
> trees is wattle and daub.  I built chicken coops this way in the
> neighbouring Kargil district which were successful by all accounts; the
> key is the heat source.
>
> - Andrew
>
>
> Kelly Lerner wrote:
>
> > Hi Tim,
> > Straw-bale is a great building material for housing both animals and
> > people. Load-bearing walls can be constructed of straw bales or of
> > straw-rich adobe type blocks (if that is closer to the vernacular
> > building
> > tradition). Straw bale walls must be covered with a plaster (a clay earth
> > will do) to protect it from animals.  I know one builder who is actually
> > planning on a straw-bale project in Pakistan - Greg Zaller
> > gregzaller@.... I believe he will be there in April. It
> > sounds
> > like it would be good for you'all to connect. Good luck.
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> >> From: Tim Tim.Vaessen@...
> >> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:29:16 +0430
> >> To: thelaststraw@...
> >> Subject: straw animal sheds and/or houses
> >>
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> Just a wild shot, but I am looking for somebody who could give me some
> >> general idea about the possibility of cheap, easy to build sheds for
> >> farm
> >> animals in the earthquake zone of Pakistan. Traditionally many farmers
> >> make sheds of thick walls and roofs of clay to keep the cold out in
> >> winter.
> >> What would be the possibility of constructing easily, quickly and
> >> cheaply
> >> well isolated animal sheds of straw or other natural resources? And
> >> while
> >> we are at it, what about houses for the farmers themselves?
> >> One issue is ofcourse that we would not want the animals to eat the
> >> walls.
> >>
> >> Could you connect me with somebody?
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tim Vaessen, Sr. Emergency and Rehabilitation Coordinator
> >> FAO Pakistan/Afghanistan;Tel.PAK:92(0)300 501 5527; AFG:93(0)70 285266
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > *****************************************************
> > Kelly Lerner, Architect
> > One World Design
> > 509-838-8812
> > <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.one-world-design.com";>http://www.one-world-design.com</a>
> > klerner@...
> >
> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> > multipart/alternative
> >  text/plain (text body -- kept)
> >  text/html
> > ---
> > ----
> > GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
> > representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
> > costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
> > Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
> > technical editing arm.
> >
> > For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
> > list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
> > SUBJECT line.  ----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as
> an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 09:12:35 -0600
From: "Andre de Bouter" forum@...
Subject: GSBN:Re: FW: straw animal sheds and/or houses

I agree on the point of avoiding SB if straw is not readily available. However
I
just want to mention that it is extreemly simple to make bales with just a few
planks and 2 feet. After all, a straw bale is only compacted straw tied by 2
or
3 strings. We made them in South india (rice straw, and lots of it, but no
baling machines). See
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.lamaisonenpaille.com/Galeries/Stages/Stage-Auroville.htm";>http://www.lamaisonenpaille.com/Galeries/Stages/Stage-Auroville.htm</a> Though we
used a post(granit) and beam structure I was impressed by the density of these
bales. Some local testing would need to be done in order to see what weight
they could take (and/or what size bales should be made to carry the weight).

Did you all know that Kelly Lerner (and all 'her little helpers') won the
"World
Habitat Award" for the China SB project:
Hong Kong, China-On October 3rd, 2005, the Adventist Development and Relief
Agency office in China (ADRA China) received the 2005 World Habitat Award,
from
the Building and Social Housing Foundation of Great Britain for providing
practical and innovative solutions to current housing needs and problems.
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.interaction.org/newswire/detail.php?id=4535";>http://www.interaction.org/newswire/detail.php?id=4535</a>

Huray for Kelly (and all those who made this project a reality)!

bye,

Andr#233#
La Maison en Paille



Selon Andrew Webb Architect design@...:

> Good insulation is of no use if there is no heat inside the building in
> the first place.  In the case of animal sheds that comes from either
> body heat or the sun.  Unless you have a reliable local supply of straw
> or unlimited resources, which I doubt, I would spend limited money and
> energy on getting solar collectors - plastic or, ideally, glass to the
> region and build in earth.  The animals won't have any body heat if they
> don't have food, so instead of transporting in straw, fill the trucks
> with hay.  Use the topography to your advantage and dig animal sheds
> into the sides of hills so you need few walls.
>
> Straw would be great to have there but the logistical issues need to be
> looked at seriously.  I hope it is feasible but I have my doubts.
> Baling is another major hurdle there and Greg Zaller has a protoype
> hand-baling press I believe.  Don't discount local knowledge - there are
> most likely very good reasons why they build the way they do.  Better to
> build on that rather than subvert it.
>
> Another cheap and easy method to consider if they have sufficient willow
> trees is wattle and daub.  I built chicken coops this way in the
> neighbouring Kargil district which were successful by all accounts; the
> key is the heat source.
>
> - Andrew
>
>
> Kelly Lerner wrote:
>
> > Hi Tim,
> > Straw-bale is a great building material for housing both animals and
> > people. Load-bearing walls can be constructed of straw bales or of
> > straw-rich adobe type blocks (if that is closer to the vernacular
> > building
> > tradition). Straw bale walls must be covered with a plaster (a clay earth
> > will do) to protect it from animals.  I know one builder who is actually
> > planning on a straw-bale project in Pakistan - Greg Zaller
> > gregzaller@.... I believe he will be there in April. It
> > sounds
> > like it would be good for you'all to connect. Good luck.
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> >> From: Tim Tim.Vaessen@...
> >> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:29:16 +0430
> >> To: thelaststraw@...
> >> Subject: straw animal sheds and/or houses
> >>
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> Just a wild shot, but I am looking for somebody who could give me some
> >> general idea about the possibility of cheap, easy to build sheds for
> >> farm
> >> animals in the earthquake zone of Pakistan. Traditionally many farmers
> >> make sheds of thick walls and roofs of clay to keep the cold out in
> >> winter.
> >> What would be the possibility of constructing easily, quickly and
> >> cheaply
> >> well isolated animal sheds of straw or other natural resources? And
> >> while
> >> we are at it, what about houses for the farmers themselves?
> >> One issue is ofcourse that we would not want the animals to eat the
> >> walls.
> >>
> >> Could you connect me with somebody?
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tim Vaessen, Sr. Emergency and Rehabilitation Coordinator
> >> FAO Pakistan/Afghanistan;Tel.PAK:92(0)300 501 5527; AFG:93(0)70 285266
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > *****************************************************
> > Kelly Lerner, Architect
> > One World Design
> > 509-838-8812
> > <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.one-world-design.com";>http://www.one-world-design.com</a>
> > klerner@...
> >
> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> > multipart/alternative
> >  text/plain (text body -- kept)
> >  text/html
> > ---
> > ----
> > GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
> > representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
> > costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
> > Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
> > technical editing arm.
> >
> > For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
> > list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
> > SUBJECT line.  ----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as
> an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 12:39:26 -0600
From: Chris Magwood cmagwood@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

Laura,

Sorry I'm a bit late with this, but wanted to let you know that we
have cut away quite large portions of load-bearing walls with no ill-
effects. Under the supervision of the structural engineer on one
project, we cut openings as large as 42 inches wide by 60 inches high
(this was to install windows) with no ill effects, and no additional
bracing or posts being added. This always gave me some confidence
that sections of wet wall could be dealt with fairly easily (though
thankfully haven't had to do it).

We cut the walls with a rented concrete saw (like a big skilsaw for
cutting road paving). We had to cut from both sides, as the blade
wasn't quite big enough to go all the way through.

Chris


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 12:51:48 -0600
From: jswearingen@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

We've done a similar thing, to test an idea of just stacking the bales w/o
window openings, then cutting through later--we thought it would give us a
tighter opening.  It did.  It wasn't fun, though.  And like Chris, we didn't
have to run for cover while the wall exploded--very little happened.

John "Hole in the Wall" Swearingen

John Swearingen
 SKILLFUL MEANS
design and construction
 www.skillful-means.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...] On Behalf Of Chris Magwood
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:27 AM
To: GSBN
Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage


Laura,

Sorry I'm a bit late with this, but wanted to let you know that we have cut
away quite large portions of load-bearing walls with no ill- effects. Under
the supervision of the structural engineer on one project, we cut openings
as large as 42 inches wide by 60 inches high (this was to install windows)
with no ill effects, and no additional bracing or posts being added. This
always gave me some confidence that sections of wet wall could be dealt with
fairly easily (though thankfully haven't had to do it).

We cut the walls with a rented concrete saw (like a big skilsaw for cutting
road paving). We had to cut from both sides, as the blade wasn't quite big
enough to go all the way through.

Chris
- ----
GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as an advisory board and technical editing arm.

For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.  
- ----


- -- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date: 3/7/2006
 

- -- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date: 3/7/2006
 



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 15:21:49 -0600
From: billc_lists@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

At 10:41 AM -0800 3/7/06, John Swearingen wrote:
>We've done a similar thing, to test an idea of just stacking the bales w/o
>window openings, then cutting through later--we thought it would give us a
>tighter opening.  It did.  It wasn't fun, though.  And like Chris, we didn't
>have to run for cover while the wall exploded--very little happened.
>

Hmmm. Interesting.  So how do you attach the window?

Are you not doing this on a regular basis because it was harder in
the long run?

- --
Bill Christensen
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 16:24:31 -0600
From: jswearingen@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

We put in the windows in the usual way.  The idea is that the opening will
be cleaner, straighter and tighter, and this particular project was in a
location that gets brutal wind and rain, so we were doing everything
possible to make a tight shell. There was a lot of grumbling about it being
a lot of extra hard work (and straw on the floor), so we haven't done it
again.

John "Opps, we forgot to put the window in!" Swearingen

John Swearingen
 SKILLFUL MEANS
design and construction
 www.skillful-means.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...] On Behalf Of
billc_lists@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 1:11 PM
To: GSBN
Subject: RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage


At 10:41 AM -0800 3/7/06, John Swearingen wrote:
>We've done a similar thing, to test an idea of just stacking the bales
>w/o window openings, then cutting through later--we thought it would
>give us a tighter opening.  It did.  It wasn't fun, though.  And like
>Chris, we didn't have to run for cover while the wall exploded--very
>little happened.
>

Hmmm. Interesting.  So how do you attach the window?

Are you not doing this on a regular basis because it was harder in the long
run?

- --
Bill Christensen
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>



- --
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date: 3/7/2006




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 16:48:51 -0600
From: "Bohdan Dorniak &amp; Co Pty Ltd" bdco@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

Hi
Retrofitting a window sounds interesting.
What about lintels - how are they inserted?
I assume that for small openings that easy.
Bohdan
Architect
- ----- Original Message -----
From: billc_lists@...
To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:41 AM
Subject: RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage


> At 10:41 AM -0800 3/7/06, John Swearingen wrote:
>>We've done a similar thing, to test an idea of just stacking the bales w/o
>>window openings, then cutting through later--we thought it would give us a
>>tighter opening.  It did.  It wasn't fun, though.  And like Chris, we
>>didn't
>>have to run for cover while the wall exploded--very little happened.
>>
>
> Hmmm. Interesting.  So how do you attach the window?
>
> Are you not doing this on a regular basis because it was harder in
> the long run?
>
> --
> Bill Christensen
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
>
> Green Building Professionals Directory:
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
> Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
> Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
> Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
> list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
> GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT
> ine.  ----
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 17:03:41 -0600
From: jswearingen@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

Hi,

We commonly use a box beam on top of the wall, so lintals aren't needed.

John

John Swearingen
 SKILLFUL MEANS
design and construction
 www.skillful-means.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...] On Behalf Of Bohdan Dorniak
&amp; Co Pty Ltd
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:38 PM
To: GSBN
Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage


Hi
Retrofitting a window sounds interesting.
What about lintels - how are they inserted?
I assume that for small openings that easy.
Bohdan
Architect
- ----- Original Message -----
From: billc_lists@...
To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:41 AM
Subject: RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage


> At 10:41 AM -0800 3/7/06, John Swearingen wrote:
>>We've done a similar thing, to test an idea of just stacking the bales 
>>w/o window openings, then cutting through later--we thought it would 
>>give us a tighter opening.  It did.  It wasn't fun, though.  And like 
>>Chris, we didn't have to run for cover while the wall exploded--very 
>>little happened.
>>
>
> Hmmm. Interesting.  So how do you attach the window?
>
> Are you not doing this on a regular basis because it was harder in the 
> long run?
>
> --
> Bill Christensen
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
>
> Green Building Professionals Directory: 
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
> Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
> Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
> Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and 
> representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The 
> costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw 
> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and 
> technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN 
> list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the 
> SUBJECT ine.  ----
>

- ----
GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as an advisory board and technical editing arm.

For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.  
- ----


- -- 
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 17:51:17 -0600
From: "Janet Armstrong Johnston" janetjohnstn@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:PROPOSAL: electronic bulletin

Hi Duncan,
Janet Johnston here. I am new to the GSBN forum. Your idea sounds great. It
will provide a clear, easy and convenient way to stay on top of things!
THANKS!

Janet Armstrong Johnston Architect
StrongArm Construction
PO Box 2141, Joshua Tree CA 92252
760-366-4774 phone, 760-366-3993 fax
janet@...
www.strongarmconstruction.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...]On";>mailto:GSBN@...]On</a> Behalf Of Duncan
Lithgow
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 10:25 AM
To: GSBN
Subject: GSBN:PROPOSAL: electronic bulletin


I'm making this look a bit formal as I want to gauge peoples real
opinion on it. Please say yes or no if you have an opinion, I'd rather
people say 'no' if they can't see the point of it or wouldn't bother
sending things to it. It would save me some time and it's never good
starting something which turns out to be a waste of energy.

== What is it? ==
An email sent out once a month (fortnight/week depending on interest and
volume). The email contains whatever supporters would like other SB'ers
to know about.

== Why do it? ==
Not everyone wants to spend ages reading discussions on several lists,
but some of them would still quite like to know what is going on in SB
world.

The other reason is that much can be gained from some overarching
projects. The Last Straw is the main journal of the SB world, this would
be like the electronic noticeboard of the SB world.

== How would it work? ==
In short:
1. anyone, subscribed or not, sends their notices to the list.
2. once a month the editor(s) forms the notices into one email and this
is sent out to anyone subscribed.

Technically it would be an email list, functionally it is a one way
announcement list sent out to anyone who is subscribed to the list.
There would be no discussions on the list (except between editors). The
editor(s) would clean up what they've been sent and send it out as a
bulletin. Anyone especially interested in what is being sent to the
editors for 'consideration' (almost everything would go through) could
take a look at the public archive of 'submissions'.

== When does this happen? ==
I suggest this list give it a yes/no by the 14th March. If the answer is
yes, we ask for comment from all the lists we know of, and I'll take it
from there.

Duncan

== An example of this electronic bulletin thing ==
- ---------------------
If you have something you'd like included send a short summary, a title
and link to: sb-announcements@...

Editors note: We would really love to hear more about xyz type projects,
please let us know.

On the March noticeboard:
1. Technical Issues
2. Learning Resources
3. What's on Worldwide

= 1. Technical issues =
== New German moisture report ==
The good people at the german sb association tell us that they have just
finished a report called 'What about spilt beer?' looking at the impact
of drunken parties on the health of Straw Bale walls.
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://munich-beer-festival/archive/straw-bale-parties.html";>http://munich-beer-festival/archive/straw-bale-parties.html</a>>

== My house burn down! ==
"Sadly my unfinished house has burnt down as it was left unplastered. I,
Paul the Pyromaniachs describe in this article how the fire took hold
and how to avoid it happening to you."
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://pyro-paul/my-house-is-gone.pdf";>http://pyro-paul/my-house-is-gone.pdf</a>>

= 2. Learning Resources =
== The Last Straw ==
"TLS is happy to announce that the CD of back issues is finished. If
you've ordered one you should get it soon. If you don't know what this
is about then come and visit the website."
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://tls.com/resources/backcatalogue-on-cd.html";>http://tls.com/resources/backcatalogue-on-cd.html</a>>

== Wikibook on Straw Bale Construction updated ==
"The wikibook team has just finished revising the section on
foundations. Now we're looking for input on the Roofing Options section.
Check it out and lend a hand."
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://wikibooks.org/Straw_Bale_Construction";>http://wikibooks.org/Straw_Bale_Construction</a>>

= 3. What's on =
== Hands for knowledge site updated ==
"Well another summer is approaching and we've got lots of people looking
for volunteers to help with their houses. Come and see if there's
something you'd like to be part of." (Europe only)
<http:/you get the idea
- --
Linux user #372812, GPG Encryption Key ID 21A8C63A, available on
Jabber/GoogleTalk, msn and yahoo with the help of Gaim. Yes - a nerd.


- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/signed
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  application/pgp-signature
- ---
- ----
GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as an advisory board and technical editing arm.

For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
- ----





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 19:34:05 -0600
From: Andrew Webb design@...
Subject: SB animal sheds

I am concerned about durability of the render of SB animal sheds.  It
may be hard to control or even measure the salt content of earth renders
in the field in Pakistan.  Can anyone advise on detailing/render mixes
to deter animals from licking or otherwise damaging the render?  Cows
and horses urinate with quite a force and may do it against the walls; I
presume a higher than normal stem wall would help; any other ideas?
Animal dung may be an option to improve render durability but it may be
in short supply as it is often used as heating fuel.

- -Andrew



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 19:49:26 -0600
From: Chris Magwood cmagwood@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

 From our point of view, it took about the same amount of time to
frame everything up first and then stack and plaster compared to
stacking and plastering and cutting out later. The reason we didn't
keep doing it this way? Well, what do you do with a bunch of 3x5
foot, 21-inch thick hunks of bale wall that weigh hundreds of pounds
each?

Chris


On 7-Mar-06, at 4:11 PM, billc_lists@...:


> At 10:41 AM -0800 3/7/06, John Swearingen wrote:
>
>
>> We've done a similar thing, to test an idea of just stacking the
>> bales w/o
>> window openings, then cutting through later--we thought it would
>> give us a
>> tighter opening.  It did.  It wasn't fun, though.  And like Chris,
>> we didn't
>> have to run for cover while the wall exploded--very little happened.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Hmmm. Interesting.  So how do you attach the window?
>
> Are you not doing this on a regular basis because it was harder in
> the long run?
>
> --
> Bill Christensen
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
>
> Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://
> directory.sustainablesources.com>
> Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
> Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
> Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> ----

>
>
>

Chris Magwood
cmagwood@...
613-473-1718





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 19:50:13 -0600
From: "Bob Bolles" Bob@...
Subject: GSBN:SB animal sheds

Andrew,
If the soils are salty, it seems unlikely to me that the animals will have a
preference of the salt in the wall plaster over the salt in the soil.

I take the opposite approach regarding plastering animal shelters (barns to
us). I would be considerably more concerned with the animals damaging
themselves then the damage to the walls. The walls can be easily replastered
as required. An animal injuring itself would be of much greater
consequences.
I would not use a cement or lime plaster on the interior of an animal
shelter for just that reason.
Regards~
bb

Bob Bolles
Bob@...
www.StrawBaleHouse.com
San Diego California, USA

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Webb" design@...

>I am concerned about durability of the render of SB animal sheds.  It
> may be hard to control or even measure the salt content of earth renders
> in the field in Pakistan.  Can anyone advise on detailing/render mixes
> to deter animals from licking or otherwise damaging the render?  Cows
> and horses urinate with quite a force and may do it against the walls; I
> presume a higher than normal stem wall would help; any other ideas?
> Animal dung may be an option to improve render durability but it may be
> in short supply as it is often used as heating fuel.
>
> -Andrew



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 19:51:23 -0600
From: Chris Magwood cmagwood@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

Ditto for us. The box beam is usually designed to span 4-6 feet
without needing additional lintels on openings.

Chris

On 7-Mar-06, at 5:52 PM, John Swearingen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We commonly use a box beam on top of the wall, so lintals aren't
> needed.
>
> John
>
> John Swearingen
>  SKILLFUL MEANS
> design and construction
>  www.skillful-means.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...] On Behalf Of Bohdan
> Dorniak
> &amp; Co Pty Ltd
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:38 PM
> To: GSBN
> Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
>
>
> Hi
> Retrofitting a window sounds interesting.
> What about lintels - how are they inserted?
> I assume that for small openings that easy.
> Bohdan
> Architect
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: billc_lists@...
> To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:41 AM
> Subject: RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
>
>
>
>> At 10:41 AM -0800 3/7/06, John Swearingen wrote:
>>
>>> We've done a similar thing, to test an idea of just stacking the
>>> bales
>>> w/o window openings, then cutting through later--we thought it would
>>> give us a tighter opening.  It did.  It wasn't fun, though.  And
>>> like
>>> Chris, we didn't have to run for cover while the wall exploded--very
>>> little happened.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hmmm. Interesting.  So how do you attach the window?
>>
>> Are you not doing this on a regular basis because it was harder in
>> the
>> long run?
>>
>> --
>> Bill Christensen
>> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
>>
>> Green Building Professionals Directory:
>> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
>> Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/";>http://SustainableSources.com/</a>
>> calendar/>
>> Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
>> Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
>> Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
>> ----
>> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>> representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>> costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>> technical editing arm.
>>
>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>> list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>> SUBJECT ine.  ----
>>
>>
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
> representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating
> this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of
> the GSBN
> as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
> list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date:
> 3/7/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date:
> 3/7/2006
>
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
> representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
> costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
> technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
> list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
> SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>

Chris Magwood
cmagwood@...
613-473-1718




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Mar 2006 22:01:03 -0600
From: Laura Bartels laura@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage

Regarding cutting out windows after basecoat (or all coats) of plaster,
I have always scratched my head over doing good moisture detailing after
the window does go in. Any comments?
Laura

Chris Magwood wrote:

> From our point of view, it took about the same amount of time to
> frame everything up first and then stack and plaster compared to
> stacking and plastering and cutting out later. The reason we didn't
> keep doing it this way? Well, what do you do with a bunch of 3x5
> foot, 21-inch thick hunks of bale wall that weigh hundreds of pounds
> each?
>
> Chris
>
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

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