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RE: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage



Hmmmmm.....
Beel sayed....

..... On the back side of those uprights we are attaching a buck that is
built out of 2x6s  configured like a picture/photo frame so that the
flat/wider side is facing forward.....  With this configuration a sill can
be attached to the buck and uprights....
....and for that matter can be replicated above the window so as to achieve
what David pointed out..... it becomes very easy to create the equivalent of
a pan either using peel and stick type membranes/metal or what have you.

So, what you mean is you can use the buck/frame to attach a sill that's
independent of the window itself as well as the bales, and that the
buck/frame gives you a good attachment surface?  And what did David say
about "above the window"?

John "Peeling Schtick" Swearingen


John Swearingen
 SKILLFUL MEANS
design and construction
 HYPERLINK "www.skillful-means.com"www.skillful-means.com
<www.skillful-means.com> 


-----Original Message-----
From: GSBN [HYPERLINK
"<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@..."mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@..."mailto:GSBN@...
<<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...> ] On Behalf Of Athena &amp; Bill Steen
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:17 AM
To: GSBN
Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage


..... On the back side of those uprights we are attaching a buck that is
built out of 2x6s  configured like a picture/photo frame so that the
flat/wider side is facing forward.  This sets the window slightly back from
the outer surface of the wall where it is a little more protected.  With
this configuration a sill can be attached to the buck and uprights and for
that matter can be replicated above the window so as to achieve what David
pointed out..... it becomes very easy to create the equivalent of a pan
either using peel and stick type membranes/metal or what have you. Another
advantage to this approach is that it allows any number of different
approaches for final detailing/plastering around the window.

Bill

Athena &amp; Bill Steen
The Canelo Project
HC1 Box 324
Canelo/Elgin, AZ 85611
absteen@...
HYPERLINK "www.caneloproject.com"www.caneloproject.com
<www.caneloproject.com> 


On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:51 AM, strawnet@...:

> Chris,
>
> All good points and although we may have some differences of opinion 
> on some bits, I think you bring up both some good solutions and some
> issues for more discussion. It's worth thinking about this issue of
> pans from a conceptual standpoint as much as from the practical issues
> you raise. This is not always the case - since concepts and realities
> are often at odds with each other, but I say this because what I think
> is most essential here is that we are thinking about devising ways to
> accomplish multiple goals in the most effective and hopefully,
> environmentally responsible, efficient and aesthetic ways we can.
>
> What we are trying to do is to ensure the longevity of the walls 
> around openings by minimizing the ability of water to get in and 
> maximizing the ability of water that does get in to get out. We have 
> to consider things like thermal bridging and condensation, freeze-thaw 
> cycles, capilarity, sequencing of installation, ease of ensuring 
> reasonable dependability both in installation and in service over 
> time, including maintainability. And, I think we should assume certain 
> things. Windows leak. Plasters and wood can crack and do move and what 
> I like to see is
> thinking that goes beyond (or behind or under) the first layer of
> protection for when that happens. Like your plaster kerfs that
> minimize
> the problem by design and detailing.
>
> While I don't want to scare people about these things, I also have 
> heard too many people dismiss them as not being such a big problem. 
> Dealing with a few buildings and the unhappy and unfortunate owners of 
> them when they do fail has just reinforced in me the need to pay 
> attention to them all the way through, from initial design to the 
> final detailing.
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Magwood cmagwood@...
> To: GSBN GSBN@...
> Sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:42:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: GSBN:Loadbearing sb with moisture damage
>
>  David and all,
>
> This is great to be addressing these issues!
>
> I think that there is some hope that the CASBA details will end up 
> including several good strategies for making good window and door 
> openings. I don't think there's just one way to do it well, because 
> the kind of window, its materials, the trim scenario and the position 
> on the wall all have an affect on the chosen strategy.
>
> I agree with David that relying on caulking is a bad idea. However, 
> caulkings and/or glues do tend to last a very long time when the 
> materials they are joining are making fairly full, flush contact with 
> one another and are not exposed to UV or weather. In the window 
> cutting arrangement, we had a very flat, straight edge on the cut 
> plaster, and made the wooden frame inserts so they fit tightly against 
> that cut plaster. The caulking that seals the two is then behind the 
> wooden window trim, which is in turn caulked to the face of the 
> plaster. Water must get behind the trim, and then through the tight, 
> caulked joint. I felt very confident with this (although I've never 
> repeated it exactly).
>
> I'm not a big fan of pan-style flashings under the windows. Those pans 
> always have seams or lumpy bits where they are folded, and these 
> always seem vulnerable to me. Also, if they are to effectively allow 
> water to leave the wall, there must be a gap between the underside of 
> the wooden sill and the pan. If there isn't, then water is just going 
> to sit under the wood and keep it soaked. If water can run free of 
> this pan, that means that there is also a gap for air to infiltrate 
> under the window. If the pan is properly bent and sealed, this air 
> won't make it right into the home, but it will make the window base 
> very cold (at least here in Canuckland) and very prone to condensation 
> on the inside. Also, water under this sill will be prone to freezing.
>
> My preferred method (submitted to the CASBA details) involves a window 
> buck in which the bottom sill is made from stock 2-inches wider than 
> the sides, and is notched into the uprights, bevelled and has a drip 
> kerf cut into the bottom. By notching the sill into the uprights (and 
> then gluing the joint), water cannot go through or around the sill, 
> but follows the bevel away from the wall and rolls free at the kerf. 
> This means that my "rough" buck sill is actually visible, so I use 
> nice wood stock that is treated on all sides for moisture resistance 
> (or some owners metal clad this sill). Lately I've taken to making 
> this an intentional feature of the home, and have been using thick 
> slab hardwood for these sills, making them heavy and distinctive in 
> the wall.
>
> Another thing that I've been doing lately is cutting plaster kerfs 
> into my frames (or anywhere where plaster will meet wood). A decently 
> deep kerf will mean that the plaster is not just resting on the 
> surface of the wood (where it's pretty easy for air and water to get
> behind) but is filling the kerf and slowing (not stopping, since the 
> plaster will shrink a bit) this tendency.
>
> Chris
> ----
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>
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> costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw 
> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and 
> technical editing arm.
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>

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are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
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