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GSBN: Digest for 3/19/06



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-> Re: Living Roofs
     by Graeme North ecodesign@...
-> Re: access to information- wiki?
     by Derek Roff derek@...
-> Re: GSBN:Data on Living Roofs
     by Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...


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Date: 18 Mar 2006 23:51:17 -0600
From: Graeme North ecodesign@...
Subject: Re: Living Roofs

Hi John - I have no hard data - and it is a very dynamic situation and
surely difficult to model.

I assume you are asking in terms of the internal environment under the roof.

I have seen "made-up" calcs that consider living roofs and their plants as
insulating blankets, -  which may work when dry.  But the real killer for
considering using living roofs as insulation is considering them when they
are saturated. Undoubtedly there are cooling effects from this, and thermal
mass effects but how to quantify them I don't know.
On a clear night roof surfaces are exposed to deep space at -273 degrees C,
so cooling effects are potentially large - and plants will moderate this.
On a cloudy/windy/rainy night,  or day.....?

Therefore, I always add insulation layers into a living roof to moderate
heat loss and gain.

If we consider the external environment, I saw a meteorologist Carol Skinner
in Melbourne, Australia, present some very interesting work on the effects
of living roofs as very worthwhile moderators of the thermal and stormwater
environments in cities.  Her work is not published yet as far as I know, and
I'm still trying to obtain her data myself.

A living roof also helps compensate for the area of biota removed by a
building's footprint.  And potentially might provide some food, for bees if
not humans.



Graeme,
Graeme North Architects,
49 Matthew Road,
RD1, Warkworth,
New Zealand 1241
Ph/fax +64 (0)9  4259305

www.ecodesign.co.nz



> From: "GSBN" GSBN@...
> Reply-To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:22:03 -0600
> To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
> Subject: GSBN: Digest for 3/17/06
>
> Hi,
>>
>> Does anyone know of some hard data on the thermal qualities of living
>> roofs.
>> I've done some preliminary energy modeling, in Energy 10, and come out
>> with
>> very little difference.  I presume that's because the program can't
>> account
>> for the shading of plants, evaporative cooling effects of moist soil,
>> and
>> perhaps the ability of the earth to hold heat, then release it to the
>> night
>> sky.  Is there some real data on this?
>>
>> John



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Date: 19 Mar 2006 20:45:36 -0600
From: Derek Roff derek@...
Subject: Re: access to information- wiki?

Duncan's wiki might be a useful repository for this kind of information.
As mentioned in a related posting, we need both books and more dynamic
references for changing information.  As the Strawbale wiki develops, I
think it can meet several reference and information sharing needs.

Derek

- --On Wednesday, March 8, 2006 12:47 PM -0500 Chris Magwood
cmagwood@... wrote:

> On a subject related to details talk:
>
> My own details book is reaching the end of its shelf life. I'm
> contributing to the CASBA book, which I think will be a great
> resource. However, I'm also contemplating doing an update of my book
> but offering it for free on the web (or by donation, or some such
> thing). Perhaps there is a place for a TLS/GSBN-sponsored site on
> which details are posted visually and accompanied by text/debate? I
> don't want to undermine the CASBA effort at all, but since there are
> so many possibilities and variations and changes happen faster than
> books can be published, perhaps we'd all be doing the whole movement
> some good by making an open-to-the-public details shop?
>
> If there's any interest in this, I'm happy to throw the contents of
> my details book (plus the revisions I'm working on) into the public
> domain as a place to start.
>
> Chris



Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: derek@...



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Date: 19 Mar 2006 21:16:07 -0600
From: Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Data on Living Roofs

Here's Michel's email address bergeron@...

Joyce

on 3.17.2006 3:17 PM, Andre de Bouter at forum@...:

> Michel Bergeron in Quebec also might be of help.
> His 'pen pal'(Serious StrawBale) Paul Lacinski should be able to track him
> down.
> 
> bye,
> Andre
> 
> Selon Chris Stafford Stafford@...:
> 
>> John,
>> I don't have your answer, but can give a couple of leads where you may
>> find out about the thermal qualities of green roofs.
>> Patrick Carey, pkc@...,  is leading green roof expert in Seattle
>> Chapter of NW EcoBuilding Guild. Another is a landscape contractor that
>> has been doing many commercial buildings in downtown Portland, Oregon.
>> I don't have their name but Carey will, if you can't find anything on
>> web.
>> Good luck,
>> Chris
>> 
>> Christopher Stafford Architects, Inc.
>> 1044 Water Street, #326
>> Port Townsend, WA 98368
>> 360.379.8541
>> www.building-green.net
>> 
>> On Mar 17, 2006, at 10:05 AM, John Swearingen wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know of some hard data on the thermal qualities of living
>>> roofs.
>>> I've done some preliminary energy modeling, in Energy 10, and come out
>>> with
>>> very little difference.  I presume that's because the program can't
>>> account
>>> for the shading of plants, evaporative cooling effects of moist soil,
>>> and
>>> perhaps the ability of the earth to hold heat, then release it to the
>>> night
>>> sky.  Is there some real data on this?
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> John Swearingen
>>> SKILLFUL MEANS
>>> design and construction
>>> HYPERLINK "<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.skillful-means.com/"www.skillful-means.com";>http://www.skillful-means.com/"www.skillful-means.com</a>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date:
>>> 3/17/2006
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> ----
>>> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>>> representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>>> costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>>> Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>>> technical editing arm.
>>> 
>>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>>> list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>>> SUBJECT line.
>>> ----
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ----
>> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
>> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
>> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as
>> an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>> 
>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
send
>> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
>> ----
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as
> an advisory board and technical editing arm.
> 
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
> 



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