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GSBN: Digest for 3/28/06



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-> ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls
     by "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
-> Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls
     by strawnet@...
-> Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls
     by duncan@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Paul Olivier in Louisiana
     by Judyknox42@...
-> from bruce king
     by Bruce King ecobruce@...
-> ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls
     by "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
-> GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls
     by "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
-> Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls
     by "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
-> Re: GSBN: sugar cane
     by Pete Fust & Catherine Wanek blackrange@...
-> GSBN: sugar cane
     by "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
-> Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls
     by duncan@...
-> ASTM straw bale fire test coming your way
     by Bruce King ecobruce@...


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Date: 28 Mar 2006 08:34:58 -0600
From: "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
Subject: ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls

I do not know if it is possible to send files to this list.
But I would like to share the results of the ASTM tests
conducted on rice hulls.

Also, please see:
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm";>http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm</a>

Thanks.

Paul Olivier
ESR International LLC
519 West Dejean Street
PO Box 250
Washington, Louisiana 70589
USA

Tel 1-337-447-4124
Cell 1-337-826-5540
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrint.com/";>http://www.esrint.com/</a>



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Date: 28 Mar 2006 09:01:18 -0600
From: strawnet@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls

Hello Paul,

I assume that your message is an indication that you have accepted our
invitation to join the GSBN, and I want to welcome you here. This is an
extraordinary international group of people working on the ongoing
development and evolution of straw bale construction and natural
building.

It isn't possible to send attachments to this list and typically people
either find a way to post the attachments somewhere that people can
download them or ask that members who are interested in receiving an
attachment contact them directly and e-mail to them off the list.

It's good to have you with us.

Warmest regards,

David Eisenberg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul Olivier xpolivier@...
To: GSBN@...
Sent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:22:39 -0600
Subject: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls

  I do not know if it is possible to send files to this list.
 But I would like to share the results of the ASTM tests
 conducted on rice hulls.

 Also, please see:
 <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm";>http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm</a>

 Thanks.

 Paul Olivier
 ESR International LLC
 519 West Dejean Street
 PO Box 250
 Washington, Louisiana 70589
 USA

 Tel 1-337-447-4124
 Cell 1-337-826-5540
 <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrint.com/";>http://www.esrint.com/</a>


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 ----
  GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The costs
of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in
exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing
arm.

  For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
SUBJECT line. ----





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Date: 28 Mar 2006 09:35:42 -0600
From: duncan@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls

On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 08:22 -0600, Paul Olivier wrote:
> I do not know if it is possible to send files to this list.
> But I would like to share the results of the ASTM tests
> conducted on rice hulls.
I assume you'll put it somewhere permanent later, send it to me and I'll
put it in my website for now, longer term there are several people on
this list who would be able to help you.

the address is: duncan at lithgow-schmidt dot dk

And since your reputation is as a do-er you may be interested in do'ing
a wikibook (free community edited online) on alternative insulation, or
specifically rice hulls. The Straw Bale Construction wikibook is what
I'm currently pushing forward.
<a  target="_blank" href="http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Straw_Bale_Construction";>http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Straw_Bale_Construction</a> let me know if it
looks useful but overwhelming.

> Also, please see:
> <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm";>http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm</a>
I did when your name first came up, and I've edited the wikibook above
slightly to reflect your information, you are very welcome to edit that
section (or any) further to make it more accurate.
<a  target="_blank" href="http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Straw_Bale_Construction/Techniques/Roofing";>http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Straw_Bale_Construction/Techniques/Roofing</a>



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Date: 28 Mar 2006 09:54:49 -0600
From: Judyknox42@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Paul Olivier in Louisiana

Ben's e-mail is the one I have for Paul
Judy

Judy Knox and Matts Myhrman
Out On Bale
1037 E. Linden St.
Tucson, Az  85719
520-622-6896
judyknox42@...
mattsmyhrman@...

Each of us can and must champion the evolutionary breakthroughs necessary to
sustain all life.  The journey of a champion is difficult, AND our access to a
joyful life.
Judy Knox


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Date: 28 Mar 2006 10:37:49 -0600
From: Bruce King ecobruce@...
Subject: from bruce king



Paul --

I also want to welcome you to this list.  We met three years ago at an
EPA-sponsored conference in Santa Fe, and your presentation (on your
work with rice hulls) was by far the most exciting.

best regards,

Bruce King, PE
Director, Ecological Building Network  ( www.ecobuildnetwork.org )
Publisher, Green Building Press  ( www.greenbuildingpress.com )
209 Caledonia St.
Sausalito, CA 94965  USA
(415) 331-7630
bruce@ ecobuildnetwork.org

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Date: 28 Mar 2006 10:45:17 -0600
From: "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
Subject: ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls

I have posted the original ASTM tests on rice hulls on my old website:

<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrla.com/pdf/astm1.pdf";>http://www.esrla.com/pdf/astm1.pdf</a>
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrla.com/pdf/astm2.pdf";>http://www.esrla.com/pdf/astm2.pdf</a>

As you see, rice hulls meet all of the requirements for use as insulation.
They do not have to be processed in any way, and no chemicals must be added.
If you would like to see how rice hulls have been used to build a rice hull
house in Louisiana, please see:

<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm";>http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm</a>

I have been living in the rice hull house depicted in this presentation for
over two years. I see the
rice hull house as a logical extension of the strawbale house, especially in
those areas where rice is grown, and in those areas that are very hot and
humid.

Please note that my main activity lies in the recycling of automobile,
industrial and residential waste:

<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrint.com/";>http://www.esrint.com/</a>

With our separation technology we will soon achieve in Western Europe the
total elimination of landfill with respect to these three huge categories of
waste. In the USA we have set up but one recycling center for automobile and
industrial waste. But we look forward to setting up a site in California
that would handle all three types of waste. It may be hard to imagine, but
landfills will soon become a totally obsolete means of disposing of waste.

Thanks.

Paul Olivier
ESR International LLC
519 West Dejean Street
PO Box 250
Washington, Louisiana 70589
USA

Tel 1-337-447-4124
Cell 1-337-826-5540
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrint.com/";>http://www.esrint.com/</a>




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Date: 28 Mar 2006 10:55:44 -0600
From: "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
Subject: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls

>And since your reputation is as a do-er you may be interested in do'ing
a wikibook (free community edited online) on alternative insulation, or
specifically rice hulls. The Straw Bale Construction wikibook is what
I'm currently pushing forward.
<a  target="_blank" href="http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Straw_Bale_Construction";>http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Straw_Bale_Construction</a> let me know if it
looks useful but overwhelming.

The paper on rice hulls as insulation could be reworked with little effort.
Let me know what you think best.

Thanks.
Paul Olivier




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Date: 28 Mar 2006 11:03:10 -0600
From: "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls

Dear David,

I truly admire the work that you are doing, and everything you write touches
me so deeply. I particularly like what you have written regarding the
political situation here in the USA.

Thank you so much for inviting me to join this list group.

Paul Olivier
ESR International LLC
519 West Dejean Street
PO Box 250
Washington, Louisiana 70589
USA

Tel 1-337-447-4124
Cell 1-337-826-5540
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrint.com/";>http://www.esrint.com/</a>




- ----Original Message Follows----
From: strawnet@...
Reply-To: "GSBN" GSBN@...
To: GSBN@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:49:29 -0500

Hello Paul,

I assume that your message is an indication that you have accepted our
invitation to join the GSBN, and I want to welcome you here. This is an
extraordinary international group of people working on the ongoing
development and evolution of straw bale construction and natural
building.

It isn't possible to send attachments to this list and typically people
either find a way to post the attachments somewhere that people can
download them or ask that members who are interested in receiving an
attachment contact them directly and e-mail to them off the list.

It's good to have you with us.

Warmest regards,

David Eisenberg




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Mar 2006 11:22:44 -0600
From: Pete Fust &amp; Catherine Wanek blackrange@...
Subject: Re: GSBN: sugar cane

At 07:49 AM 3/28/2006, David E. wrote:
>Hello Paul,
>I assume that your message is an indication that you have accepted our
>invitation to join the GSBN, and I want to welcome you here.....

Yes, welcome, Paul!
I'm not familiar with your work with sugar cane fibers... perhaps a
brief description of it would be welcome on this list, with a link to
more info.  Thanks.


Best Regards,

Catherine Wanek
Natural Building Resources
www.StrawbaleCentral.com
505-895-3389 / 800-676-5622
cat@...



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Date: 28 Mar 2006 13:27:00 -0600
From: "Paul Olivier" xpolivier@...
Subject: GSBN: sugar cane

Dear Catherine Wanek,

I have not done any more work with regard to sugarcane rind. At the time I
was referring to the work of Rick Tilby and his father:
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.tilbysystems.com/index.html";>http://www.tilbysystems.com/index.html</a>

I know of several places as far apart as Mexico and Vietnam where the Tilby
System was installed, but I am not aware of anyone being able to make money
with this process. However, I do believe that if a clean billet is presented
to the Tilby process, this process will work. In the meantime, my company
has designed a 24-foot wide separator to remove all extraneous material from
sugarcane billets. This fall we will install the first section of this
gigantic separator at a sugar mill here in Louisiana. The main purpose of
this separator is to remove large clay balls that inevitably accompany the
billets into the mill when harvested during rainy weather. Without the
perfect removal of such trash, there is no way the Tilby separator
(depither) will be able to do its jobs.

Along similar lines, my company is designing a separator to remove
extraneous material from sugar beets. We have found out to our great
surprise that beets that go bad in storage have an altogether different
density from that of good beets. Instead of throwing away an entire storage
bin, we are able to select the good and reject the bad. This will save the
industry as a whole 10's of millions of dollars per year.

So I have moved away from the idea of using sugarcane rind to make
engineered lumber. Liam Devlin of Australia, a consultant to James Hardy,
has come up with an accelerator to bind cement to rice hulls. He believes
that it would be possible to make structural members on site out a mixture
of rice hulls and cement.

On Monday I leave for Malaysia, and I have found there a company that claims
to make structural members out of rice hulls and recycled plastic. Please
take a close look at their website:
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.fibersit.com/product-profiles.html";>http://www.fibersit.com/product-profiles.html</a>
My company is also involved in plastic separation, and I would like to
install our separators in Malaysia to isolate more econoically the recyled
plastic needed in the Fibersit process. Imagine making structural members
out of rice hulls and recycled plastic. This would bring the rice hull house
concept to whole new level of feasibility.

Ultimately the goal is to build a house completely out of agricultural and
other waste products without making any great demand upon our forests. At
the moment the strawbale house come the closest to realizing this goal.
Surely rice hulls could be used to insulate the attics of strawbale houses.
Hopefully you have had a chance to review the two links to the ASTM tests
that I posted this morning.

Thanks.

Paul Olivier
ESR International LLC
519 West Dejean Street
PO Box 250
Washington, Louisiana 70589
USA

Tel 1-337-447-4124
Cell 1-337-826-5540
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrint.com/";>http://www.esrint.com/</a>




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Date: 28 Mar 2006 15:37:50 -0600
From: duncan@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:ASTM Tests on Rice Hulls

This is a bit off-topic but some of you will be interested, I would
personally like to see research using these licenses generally.

On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 10:43 -0600, Paul Olivier wrote:
> The paper on rice hulls as insulation could be reworked with little effort.
> Let me know what you think best.
Do you mean this article:
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.esrla.com/pdf/The-Rice-Hull-House2.pdf";>http://www.esrla.com/pdf/The-Rice-Hull-House2.pdf</a>

Since it is a finished work, if you want to make it freely available and
copyable I suggest you simply edit it and add a license from
<a  target="_blank" href="http://creativecommons.org/";>http://creativecommons.org/</a> I would suggest the simplest method is to
republish the text with this text at the end::

This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5
License. To view a copy of this license, visit
<a  target="_blank" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/";>http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/</a> or send a letter to Creative
Commons, 543 Howard Street, 5th Floor, San Francisco, California, 94105,
USA.

This uses the 'Attribution 2.5' license:
<a  target="_blank" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/";>http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/</a>

Which ensures that you get attribution but doesn't limit much else, so
people can build on your work, commercially and non-commercially.

You may want to consider this license instead which enforces further use
of the same license unless people get your permission specifically
(which they have to do now anyway)
<a  target="_blank" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/";>http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/</a>

Once it's done we, or anyone can find a few relevant places for it.

Duncan



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Date: 28 Mar 2006 20:33:15 -0600
From: Bruce King ecobruce@...
Subject: ASTM straw bale fire test coming your way



Howdy, Baleheads --

I seem to have stumbled across funding for a good old American ASTM
straw bale fire test, and I want to by God get it right this time.  The
funding source is the same small foundation that underwrote the EBNet
conference 5 years ago, and they have signaled that they can probably
provide the bulk of the cost at the start of their next fiscal year,
which is June 1.

I am very much in the throes of rushing to finish "Design of Plastered
Straw bale Structures" -- a compilation of everything we've tested and
learned worldwide to date -- by the Canadian SB Jubilee in late
September.  Needless to say, it would be great to have that test done,
written up properly, and published in the book for free reproduction.

I write to you all to enlist support.  The more tangible support
(donations) that we can gather from the various straw bale associations
(or individuals), even if very modest amounts, the better our chances
of securing the funding we seek from the foundation.  They like to see
widespread support for a project like this before committing their own
funds.

Right now, all I ask is for letters of support.  CASBA (California
Baleheads) have ponied up for $5,000.  If anyone else can chip in, even
just a few hundred bucks, then please send me a letter to that effect
on letterhead via email ASAP.  We won't need actual cash for a month or
two or three.  The testing facility is in San Antonio, Texas, so if any
of you Lone Star baleheads can volunteer time or materials, or even
just work at a wee discount, that would be great, too, and send a
letter letting us know.  We also want to video the whole thing and make
a short DVD, so maybe those of you who can do that sort of thing (is
there anyone but Catherine?), please think about the cost and let us
know, again asap.

I envision testing for a 2 hour rating with thin bales (eg 18" wide
two-stringers) because anything wider could only be a better fire
barrier, thus making the test conservative and more widely useful.  I
also imagine using lime-cement plaster ( 1 part cement : 1 part
hydrated lime : 6 parts sand +/- ) because the kinds of projects that
need a fire rating -- educational, industrial, retail, commercial --
will also tend to want a harder and more durable plaster than one
generally gets with earth.

If funding allows, we'll also then test bales on edge, and
clay-plastered bales, but that would likely take a LOT more money.
Ecological Building Network will raise and manage the funds, and David
Eisenberg/DCAT will be running the test (who could be better?).

This is pretty exciting in that I'm pretty sure it will happen, but I
ask that y'all refrain from deluging David and/or me with questions,
suggestions, death threats, etc. unless it's REALLY important -- we're
both already swamped by this, and we'll die some day anyway.

OK, that's the news from Sausalito.  Please reply asap if you can chip
in, I'd really like to get this thing going.


Yippee-Yi-Yo,

Bruce King, PE
Director, Ecological Building Network  ( www.ecobuildnetwork.org )
Publisher, Green Building Press  ( www.greenbuildingpress.com )
209 Caledonia St.
Sausalito, CA 94965  USA
(415) 331-7630
bruce@ ecobuildnetwork.org

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