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Re: GSBN:fire test -- your opinions?



Thanks Martin Hammer - it's nice to see some humor
with all this serious (and it is serious and
important) discussion about what to test.

The ceremonial bonfire at the CASBA 10th celebration
proved that indeed polypropolene?? does indeed
melt/pop and crackle.

MHB

--- Martin Hammer mfhammer@... wrote:

> Bruce -
>
> I communicated with you about the fire tests a month
> ago, but with some new
> information I will express my latest opinion, and
> offer some thoughts to the
> GSBN people.
>
> If I had to pick one wall, two-string bales laid
> flat with cement-lime
> plaster is definitely the right choice in my
> opinion.  Regarding no mesh, I
> think I see the point, but worry that without the
> mesh some sections of
> plaster might pop off the bales under intense heat
> and cause a major failure
> in the test.  Is this a real possibility or just my
> imagination run amok?
>
> You are now able to conduct two tests, which is
> great, and thanks to all who
> contributed to allow it to happen.  So . . .
>
> Previously I advocated that bales on-edge be tested
> (to test for the effect
> of presumed melting/popping polypropylene strings
> among other things, and to
> satisfy the many on-edge practitioners (maybe we are
> a bit on-edge)), but
> not far behind that is my strong desire to see clay
> based plasters tested.
> For the many practitioners who use earthen plasters
> (some exclusively), and
> the direction it seems to be heading.
>
> I wonder if there's a way to have it all with two
> tests.  Assuming the walls
> will be approximately 8'x8' (6.2mx6.2m) can you:
>
> A) Have a cement-lime wall with half of it laid flat
> and half of it on-edge
> (I ask this without knowing the dimensions of the
> bales you will use), and
> then have the other wall laid flat with clay
> plasters. (or the reverse)
>
> OR
>
> B) Test the first wall as you have it, and test the
> second wall with bales
> on-edge and with clay plaster.
>
> 'A' might present some construction and protocol
> problems.  With 'B', I
> suspect both tests would be successful (for 2 hour)
> and thus we could have
> it all.
>
> If clay plaster is used I assume you would use no
> mesh (potential spalling
> problem?) and I'm wondering what thickness you would
> use.  1 1/2"? (3.8mm).
>
> Also, will the test be done in accordance with ASTM
> E119?
>
>
> Martin Hammer (and The Melting/Popping,
> Polypropylene String Band)
> California
>
>
>
> >
> > Everybody --
> >
> > An ASTM fire test will be conducted this summer in
> San Antonio, Texas
> > on two different wall types.  After much thought
> and discussion with
> > David Eisenberg, and many baleheads at the recent
> CASBA 10th
> > anniversary celebration, the tentative wall types
> are two-string Texas
> > wheat bales---one with bales flat, and one with
> bales on edge---both
> > with no pins or mesh, and both with two coats of
> lime-cement plaster.
> >
> > If anyone feels strongly that we should test some
> other assembly,
> > please do speak up;  David and I both feel that
> this is too important
> > for us to decide by ourselves.
> >
> > John Glassford and others have suggested earth
> plaster, sensing that it
> > may outperform lime or lime-cement.  And you may
> well be right, but in
> > the current and foreseeable building environment,
> the people who will
> > need a fire rating for their building (I suspect)
> will also need the
> > higher hardness and durability of lime-cement.
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bruce King, PE
>

>
>


Maurice and Joy Bennett


You must be the change you want to see in the world.   Gandhi