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GSBN: Digest for 5/1/06



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-> RE: GSBN:Re: Fire test
     by "Frank & Ingrid" strawbales@...
-> Re: GSBN:Re: Fire test
     by Judyknox42@...
-> Re: GSBN:Thanks for the opportunity to join GSBN
     by Judyknox42@...
-> GSBN:Re: fire test -- your opinions?
     by "Bob Bolles" Bob@...
-> FW: corrections to 2006 Resource Guide
     by Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
-> Re: GSBN:FW: corrections to 2006 Resource Guide
     by john@...
-> Re: Fire test - earth plaster
     by Graeme North ecodesign@...


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Date: 1 May 2006 01:00:26 -0600
From: "Frank & Ingrid" strawbales@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:Re: Fire test


Hello all,

Short and to the point, very well spoken Graeme (and Barbara Jones and
Lars Keller..........)

We strongly support that any testing to be done should be done with clay
and lime renders only. We all know these are the most suitable for
strawbale walls, they work very well for all different climate
conditions here in Australia, are the most environmentally friendly - we
claim to built with less impact on the environment using a (often) waste
product "Strawbales" so we should not be afraid to leave cement behind
us either - who likes to work with the stuff anyway -. Fasba (German
strawbale association) did strawbale construction fire tests with clay
plasters and achieved excellent results - clay does not burn - and it
would indeed be very interesting to see if the plaster can hold up to
the hose test, we think it will.

Regards, Frank & Ingrid

Yesterday-Today-Tomorrow, Strawbale Construction
Ph. & Fax: + 61 2 4443 5282 Mobile: 0408415806
strawbales@...
www.strawtec.com.au

- -----Original Message-----
From: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...] On Behalf Of Graeme
North
Sent: Monday, 1 May 2006 1:27 PM
To: GSBN
Subject: GSBN:Re: Fire test

Hi Bruce

For my money at least on rig to test would be two string bales on the
flat
with 3 coat lime plater without mesh (exterior) and earth plaster inside
- -
this to me is the best design environmentally we can give that will
withstand a wide  range of weather conditions.
For strong environmental reasons we must reduce cement use in our
buildings,
and to do a test that will probably lock us into its use if we are
relying
on this test for consent purposes seems a really big  backwards step to
me.


Best

Graeme,





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Date: 1 May 2006 12:03:32 -0600
From: Judyknox42@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Re: Fire test

I simply have to vote with the "test the clay" group on this one.  We do need
to leave cement behind wherever and as soon as possible, and I'm glad to hear
that voice in this debate.
Judy

In a message dated 4/30/2006 8:51:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
ecodesign@...:

>
> Hi Bruce
>
> For my money at least on rig to test would be two string bales on the flat
> with 3 coat lime plater without mesh (exterior) and earth plaster inside -
> this to me is the best design environmentally we can give that will
> withstand a wide  range of weather conditions.
> For strong environmental reasons we must reduce cement use in our buildings,
> and to do a test that will probably lock us into its use if we are relying
> on this test for consent purposes seems a really big  backwards step to me.
>
>
> Best
>
> Graeme,
> Graeme North Architects,
> 49 Matthew Road,
> RD1, Warkworth,
> New Zealand 1241
> Ph/fax +64 (0)9  4259305
>
>


Judy Knox and Matts Myhrman
Out On Bale
1037 E. Linden St.
Tucson, Az  85719
520-622-6896
judyknox42@...
mattsmyhrman@...

Each of us can and must champion the evolutionary breakthroughs necessary to
sustain all life.  The journey of a champion is difficult, AND our access to a
joyful life.
Judy Knox


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Date: 1 May 2006 12:05:11 -0600
From: Judyknox42@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Thanks for the opportunity to join GSBN

And welcome, Tom and Gena...I thought you were already a member of
GSBN...it's about time!
Judy

Judy Knox and Matts Myhrman
Out On Bale
1037 E. Linden St.
Tucson, Az  85719
520-622-6896
judyknox42@...
mattsmyhrman@...

Each of us can and must champion the evolutionary breakthroughs necessary to
sustain all life.  The journey of a champion is difficult, AND our access to a
joyful life.
Judy Knox


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Date: 1 May 2006 14:32:51 -0600
From: "Bob Bolles" Bob@...
Subject: GSBN:Re: fire test -- your opinions?

Bruce and all,
This goes straight into the "for what it is worth" department, because I don't
know if it is directly applicable.

We lost 3 Straw Bale building in the Oct 2004 fire here in the San Diego,
California area - the only 3 that were in the fire zone.
One of the buildings was a 20' round Kiosk built in the Crestridge Eco
Preserve.
The inside of the building was a clay plaster with a thick limewash finish
coat. The exterior was about 1 1/2" clay plaster. Our mix was about 1/3rd
(about 90+% pure) ground clay, 1/3rd plaster sand, and 1/3rd finely-ground
straw - we let the horse do the grinding. It is (normally) a very strong mix.
After the fire, I retrieved some pieces of the exterior clay plaster - one of
which existed until today, when I gave it a very unofficial 'hose test' - The
piece was more cob-like than plaster as it was from around the door frame and
filled a fairly large gap. The piece was about 6" X 4" and somewhat triangular
in height shape - about 3" in the middle, tapering to about 1" along both
sides.
When we disassembled what was left in the rubble, the plaster with 14 gage
wire lath had retained its shape - two thin parallel plaster layers with ash
between. It was difficult to separate it from the wire, but it was quite
crumbly and brittle. I attempted to soak it, in the interest of determining if
it was "fired" or still had adhesive characteristics. It had neither adhesive
or expansive qualities, and we ground it up and used it as aggregate for the
rebuilt Kiosk,

So when I did this hose test, my sample disintegrated in about 30 seconds.
Like I say, for what it's worth.
Regards~
bb

Bob Bolles
Sustainable Building Systems, Inc
Bob@...
www.StrawBaleHouse.com
Join our Community bulletin board 
  casbasouth-subscribe@...



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Date: 1 May 2006 19:42:37 -0600
From: Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
Subject: FW: corrections to 2006 Resource Guide

I am forwarding this portion of Alex's email to you so that you will be
aware of the fire test that is being planned (April 26, I believe) in
Israel. Please feel free to contact Alex regarding any aspect of the test.
He indicates he will share results of the testing.

We should consider adding Alex Cicelsky to the GSBN list as he is and has
been involved in strawbale and natural building in Israel for some time now.
I recommend he be nominated as we have no representatives at present in
Israel.

Joyce

Dear Joyce,

Thanks again for another wonderful publication (Resource Guide 2006).  This
edition clearly shows that no one needs be alonea

Tomorrow Mike Kaplin and I (both of Center for Creative Ecology)  travel to
the laboratories of the Israel Standards Institute to plan the
approved/upcoming fire test of an earth plastered straw bale test wall that
our ecocenter/NPO has decided to sponsor.  Of course we1ll keep you informed
of the progress. 

Thanks and Take care,

Alex 

Alex Cicelsky; Design, Construction and Education
Center for Creative Ecology
Kibbutz Lotan, D.N. Eilot 88855  Israel
Tel: 08-6356914, Mobile: 054-979-9009, Fax: 08-6356842
Email: lotan-build@...
Please Visit Our Websites:
www.kibbutzlotan.com

www.birdingisrael.com





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Date: 1 May 2006 19:53:28 -0600
From: john@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:FW: corrections to 2006 Resource Guide

G 'day All

I would second Alex for GSBN, we have communicated for several years now and
he is doing good work with straw bale in Israel.  Alex also has some great
contacts in Africa and I hope to meet him there some time next year.

Looks like GSBN is moving nicely along these days.

Kind regards
John Glassford
Huff 'n' Puff Constructions
<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.glassford.com.au/";>http://www.glassford.com.au/</a>
61 2 6927 6027


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Date: 1 May 2006 22:32:40 -0600
From: Graeme North ecodesign@...
Subject: Re: Fire test - earth plaster

Hi all,

Another point on earth plaster to bear in mind for fire testing (and I
suggest it would be great to use an earth plaster on at least one side of at
least one test) - 

There was a fire test done here (or possibly in Australia or elsewhere - I
can't remember) many years ago on mud bricks for fire rating them - they
were ordinary mud brick with straw in them.
The first thing that happened when they got hot was the surface straw burnt
off - thereby generating smoke, even thought the smoke stopped almost
immediately and the the brick went on to perform very well otherwise against
severe heat as would be expected.
However, officially the result  was a fail because of the smoke generation -
the same thing might happen with earth plaster if the outer layers at least
contain flammable material - depends on the test criteria.

Interestingly enough we sometimes apply earth plasters (often containing
paper pulp as well) as a thin finish over gypsum board walls - a colleague
had done this to a cafe that burnt down, and the firemen were very impressed
at the extra fire resistance given to the gypsum board walls by the earth
plasters.

I do see some danger for earth plasters if they are to be subjected to high
pressure hosing - unless the fire first gets the surface up to red hot
temperatures (around 800 deg Celsius) and there is a lot of fire resistant
aggregate in the plasters - then it would be like well grogged raku pottery
clay that gets fired to red heat and them dunked in water, and survives
well.

And Bruce - at least graffitied PVC siding will burn well for the
pyromaniacs.  

Cheers,


Graeme,
Graeme North Architects,
49 Matthew Road,
RD1, Warkworth,
New Zealand 1241
Ph/fax +64 (0)9  4259305

www.ecodesign.co.nz
    



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