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GSBN: Digest for 5/2/06



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---------------------------------------------------------------------


-> RE: GSBN:Moisture research
     by "Rikki  Nitzkin" rikkinitzkin@...
-> RE: GSBN:Questionnaire
     by "Rikki  Nitzkin" rikkinitzkin@...
-> RE: GSBN:fire test -- your opinions?
     by "Rikki  Nitzkin" rikkinitzkin@...
-> Re: GSBN:Lime Wash
     by Paul Lacinski paul@...
-> RE: GSBN:Lime Wash
     by "Strawbalefutures" info@...
-> Update: Link to images of our most recent SB project
     by Tom Hahn tomhahn@...
-> Re: GSBN:Lime Wash
     by larskeller@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 May 2006 02:36:37 -0600
From: "Rikki  Nitzkin" rikkinitzkin@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:Moisture research

There was a very interesting, if poorly documented experiment done in spain
about rotten bales.  

They took extremely rotten, wet, moldy, mushroom sprouting bales and made
the best wall they could.

They then put a thick (about 10cm) layer of straw-clay plaster on top.  In
this hot (40#188#c)sunny climate it took 4 MONTHS for the plaster to dry.
Eventually it did, and they opened a hole in the wall to find dry (if weak
and dusty!) straw behind it. This is interesting because of the ability of
the clay to draw the water out of the bales.

Is there anyone doing testing about that? The ability of clay or lime to DRY
OUT wet bales?

Rikki Nitzkin
Aulas, Lleida, Espana
rikkinitzkin@...
(0034)657 33 51 62 
www.casasdepaja.com (Red de Construccion con Balas de Paja)
 

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...] En nombre de Jakub Wihan
> Enviado el: miercoles, 19 de abril de 2006 12:40
> Para: GSBN
> Asunto: Re: GSBN:Moisture research
> 
> Dear Martin, Dirk and others
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for your support. The responses I have gotten in the
> last few hours are so encouraging and it goes on...
> 
> 
> 
> During my research, I found a number of studies that have explored the
> microorganism population on straw over time either in laboratories or in
> the
> field. The  classic paper: "How Straw Decomposes"  by Summers, Blunk and
> Jenkins focuses on the quantity of population on rice straw during
> decomposition in a low moisture content environment in sealed containers.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if a similar study (quantity development of
> microorganisms
> over time) has ever been done on straw directly in a wall?
> 
> 
> 
> There are many practices developed by experience that help to prevent
> moisture failure of a straw bale construction (the questionnaires I
> received
> so far summarize them nicely). One of them is impeccable, but "breathable"
> plaster. I feel that  simple research over a longer period of time on
> development of microorganism quantity on straw in walls covered with
> different plasters could lead to potential improvements in  straw bale
> technology. The influence of plaster on microorganism growth could be
> quite
> complex - for example the moist earth plaster swells up air tight,
> preventing oxygen availability for decomposition, lime is natural
> microorganism killer, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> GrAT, The Center for Appropriate Technology at the Vienna University of
> Technology - is carrying out similar long term research. I'm trying to
> contact them, but they haven't  responded. It seems that the results
> aren't
> available yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And please, to those who haven't done so yet, don't forget to fill out the
> questionnaire.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Very best wishes
> 
> 
> 
> Kuba
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dirk Scharmer- FSB" ds@...
> To: "'GSBN'" GSBN@...
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:14 AM
> Subject: RE: GSBN:Moisture research
> 
> 
> > Dear Kuba,
> > I'm happy that you do this work. We're doing some moisture research too.
> >
> > - Moisture/ temperature monitoring on 4 houses - one is being monitored
> > since November, 2004.
> > - Dynamic moisture transport simulation with WUFI
> > - Mold analyzing of embedded straw
> >
> > The goal is to find the best prevention against moisture failure of a
> > straw
> > bale construction and to get this in a buidling code.
> >
> > In the next weeks we'll start a comprehensive research project with more
> > simulations, monitoring and analyzing. Our work and your work would fit
> > together perfectly to describe the complex mold problem of straw bales.
> > Your
> > way to come more from the practical side may be the more significant one
> > for
> > the building site. The way of simulating and mold analyzing for me seems
> > to
> > be a good way to fit the requirements of the german building
> authorities.
> > Our first general approval for straw bales as an insulation material is
> > mainly based on simulations. Unfortunately we were not able to prove the
> > mold resistance of directly earth plastered straw bales, but we hope to
> do
> > this with the upcoming research.
> > We are working together with the Fraunhofer Institut fuer Bauphysik,
> > www.hoki.ibp.fraunhofer.de.
> >
> > Let's get in contact!
> >
> > Perhabs you would like to join our anual straw bale meeting in august,
> > 18th-20th. There are some other international guests.
> >
> > But anyway, I think we'll meet not later than ISBBC in Lakefield, do we?
> >
> > You'll get my filled out questionaire immediately.
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Dirk
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > Fachverband Strohballenbau Deutschland e.V.
> > Auf der Ruebekuhle 10
> > D- 21335 Lueneburg
> > Tel. 00 49 4131- 727804
> > Fax. 00 49 4131- 727805
> > Internet: www.fasba.de
> > Email: ds@...
> >
> > ----
> > GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives
> of
> > regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
> > list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of
> the
> > GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
> >
> > For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> > send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> > ----
> >
> >
> 
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
> list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
> GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
> 
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 May 2006 02:37:27 -0600
From: "Rikki  Nitzkin" rikkinitzkin@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:Questionnaire


> > I will put up a copy of the questionnaire in the FILES section at SB-r-
> us
> > and make announcements to the REPP and SB-r-us lists notifying members
> of
> > its existence.
> >
> > However I suspect that the response will be minimal ...

 [Rikki:] I will do the same for the Spanish SB network, but don't expect
many responses.  Getting people to respond to surveys is like getting them
to go to the Dentist (to keep up with the dental floss analogy!). 

I have found the only reliable way to get responses is to phone or visit the
people and fill out the survey yourself.

Good luck, I will try and get my survey to you soon.  Is there a date you
need it by?  

Sincerely, Rikki





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 May 2006 02:51:02 -0600
From: "Rikki  Nitzkin" rikkinitzkin@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:fire test -- your opinions?

HI all, 

Has anyone thought about testing Clay-lime Plaster?  I have found that
adding a small amount of lime into a clay plaster makes it much more
resistant to water, and fire as well I imagine.

If I were to test lime I would do it without cement, supposing that if
anything the cement would make it more fire-proof and lime (and clay) is
plenty good enough with no cement.  Why is it that Americans are so in love
with cement (being an expat myself and Polish I feel free to make jokes
about both!)?

As for sticking to the walls, I should think that spraying limewash onto the
bales with pressure (so it penetrates) before plastering should allow the
plaster to stick just fine.  As for fire resistance, there is a Spanish
engineer who actually dips the bales in recently slaked lime before
building, and he has taken a blow torch to the bales and says they refuse to
burn...What would dipping just the inside/outside faces of the bales in a
lime-wash do?  Would that make the plaster stick more? Be more resistant to
fire?  Sort of like Tom Rijven's "French dip" but with lime instead of clay.

And sorry to drone on, but another builder I know mentioned that the fires
tend to start in the roof and work their way into the bales through the roof
beams/roof plate...so shouldn't we test how long it takes the fire to work
into the bales from above, not the sides?  I don't know how this could be
tested as I am no engineer.  Just thoughts...        

Rikki Nitzkin
Aulas, Lleida, Espana
rikkinitzkin@...
(0034)657 33 51 62 
www.casasdepaja.com (Red de Construccion con Balas de Paja)
 

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...] En nombre de
> billc_lists@...
> Enviado el: miercoles, 26 de abril de 2006 9:57
> Para: GSBN
> Asunto: Re: GSBN:fire test -- your opinions?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Interesting points re: edge vs flat, cement vs cement-lime vs lime vs
> earthen plasters.
> 
> I think it's clear that order to really get the full data, more than
> two tests will need to be done. Typically in a scientific procedure
> you'd change just one variable at a time, for instance bales on edge
> vs bales flat, with all other variables (plaster, etc) remaining the
> same. Then you'd vary another constraint, such as the plaster types,
> so that if you'd already done edge vs flat with one type of render
> you'd be able to predict how the performance would vary (or not)
> using different plasters as a result of bale orientation.  Otherwise
> you have trouble saying exactly what caused any difference you may
> have observed.
> 
> I personally don't think that we'll see a huge difference between
> edge vs flat, though I can certainly see the reasoning behind doing
> such tests to be sure.  I don't think molten strings are going to
> make much difference, especially in a test wall which is built within
> a four sided frame - it's not likely that the straw is going to go
> anywhere. The question is more a matter of how heat is transferred
> through the bale - do the hollow straws allow it to move faster
> through flat bales?  Do vertical straws cause heat to move to the top
> more quickly, causing failure there?
> 
> 
> Regarding plasters, curiosity got the best of me and I pulled some
> numbers from the SB Registry to see just what people are using on
> their walls.  For exterior walls, they can choose from:
> 
> cement plaster
> earth or clay plaster
> lime plaster
> wood siding over plastered bales
> wood siding over unplastered bales
> other - Describe if other
> 
> or any combination of the above.  Of those who reported their
> exterior finish, the resulting numbers are:
> 
> Exteriors:
> 
> Cement only: 235
> 
> Earth only: 72
> 
> Earth/lime: 34
> 
> Lime only: 51
> 
> with a scattering of other strange combinations (perhaps different
> treatments for different walls).  For interior walls, they can choose
> from:
> 
> cement plaster
> earth or clay plaster
> lime plaster
> gypsum plaster
> wood
> sheetrock
> other - Describe if other
> 
> or any combination.  The resulting numbers are:
> 
> 
> Interiors:
> 
> Cement only: 116
> 
> Cement plus other: 39 (includes cement &amp; gypsum, cement &amp; sheetrock,
> cement &amp; wood, etc)
> 
> Earth only: 94
> 
> Earth &amp; Gypsum: 13
> 
> Earth &amp; lime: 13
> 
> earth &amp; other: 15
> 
> and again, a few who did other, more bizarre combinations.
> 
> 
> So though these numbers are by no means definitive, it looks to me
> that cement beats earth for exteriors in general by about 2 to 1, but
> they're pretty close to an even match for interiors.
> 
> Which then begs the question:  Are we testing for fire resistance of
> interior walls or exterior, or both?
> 
> On the flat vs edge orientation, I see 316 flat vs 84 on edge.
> 
> I don't know if those numbers will help anyone make a decision, but I
> figured I'd throw them out there.  There's more reported use of earth
> plaster than I expected there to be.
> 
> 
> --
> Bill Christensen
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>
> 
> Green Building Professionals Directory:
> <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
> Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
> Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
> Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
> list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
> GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
> 
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 May 2006 05:53:12 -0600
From: Paul Lacinski paul@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Lime Wash

Hi Jeff,

I have sprayed limewash with an airless paint sprayer, with mixed
results.  The key seems to be to get a large enough orifice so that
the lime particles don't cause it to clog.  The normal orifice that
came from the rental yard was too fine.  It did apply the material
with a reasonable degree of impact, which seems helpful.  It wasn't
quite successful enough that we kept doing it, though for a project
this large I would probably look into it again.

But really, I would agree with Bill.  I've only seen silicate paint
in action once, but it definitely seemed an improvement over limewash.

Paul

>Jeff,
>Is the limewash for the outside or inside of the building?  Reason I
>ask is that for me it would seem to make sense on the inside of the
>structure where the antiseptic benefits would be advantageous.
>However, for that to be a factor the limewash would have to be
>applied on a frequent (annual?) basis to be effective.  There is a
>lime paint, the name of which I can't recall, that Harry Francis has
>brought up in the past as being particularly good for a number of
>reasons.  Perhaps he can respond with current info.  On the exterior
>why not take advantage of the lime of silicate paints offered by the
>fellows at Eco-House.  It would provide a similar soft matt look,
>resist water absorption while remaining vapor open like the
>limewash.  Furthermore, rather than remain a coating on the wall, it
>would become part of the surface.
>Another idea that hasn't occurred to me in the past is that you could
>inquire whether or not lime could be added to the paint  base in
>place of the pigments.  It would also provide a binder for the lime
>which you very well might need anyway.
>
>Bill
>
>Athena &amp; Bill Steen
>The Canelo Project
>HC1 Box 324
>Canelo/Elgin, AZ 85611
>absteen@...
>www.caneloproject.com
>
>
>On Apr 26, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Jeff Ruppert wrote:
>
>>Hello Everyone,
>>
>>We are presently working on a rather large project (30,000 sf horse
>>arena and attached residence, all straw bale) and would like to
>>apply a
>>lime wash with pigment over the brown coat of plaster, which is
>>cement/lime, to roughly 15,000 sf of surface area.
>>
>>My question is, has anyone ever tried spraying lime wash?  The huge
>>amount of surface area is leading me to try and find a faster way of
>>applying it other than by brush or roller.  We have access to both
>>hydrated and hydraulic lime.
>>
>>Also, I know there have been discussions on these lists regarding size
>>of SB structure so I don't want to ask everyone if there is a
>>larger SB
>>structure than this one (I am sure there is!), but this one definitely
>>is "up there" in terms of size.  Make a mental note if anyone ever
>>asks
>>how large you can go.  We have 20 ft tall walls included in the 15,000
>>sf of wall system on this project.  It is all three-string bales
>>stacked
>>on-edge.
>>
>>Here are some pictures for your delight!  Thanks in advance for any
>>help.
>>
>><a  target="_blank" href="http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php";>http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php</a>?
>>g2_view=core.ShowItem&amp;g2_itemId=105&amp;g2_navId=xba8dd562
>>
>>Sorry about the use of cement plaster!  A project of this scale
>>with six
>>feet of snow on the ground in the winter, big winds, and a "real-life"
>>time window, nothing compares with the cost, durability, and available
>>labor.  Thank goodness we live in a VERY dry climate!
>>
>>
>>Jeff Ruppert, P.E.
>>Principal
>>
>>Odisea LLC
>>Ecological Building, Engineering and Consulting
>>
>>Front Range Office		West Slope Office
>>1731 15th St. #105		1022 Main St.
>>Boulder, CO  80302		Carbondale, CO 81623
>>303.443.4335			970.948.5744
>>303.443.4355 f			1.866.795.6699 f
>>jeff@...
>>www.odiseanet.com
>>----
>>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>>technical editing arm.
>>
>>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>>SUBJECT line.  ----
>>
>
>----
>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>technical editing arm.
>
>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>SUBJECT line. ----


- --
Amy Klippenstein
Paul Lacinski
Sidehill Farm
GreenSpace Collaborative
PO Box 107
Ashfield MA 01330
(413) 625 - 0011


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 May 2006 06:43:49 -0600
From: "Strawbalefutures" info@...
Subject: RE: GSBN:Lime Wash

The key to good lime washing is to apply it in several very thin coats, and
to rub it really well in with a circular brushing action. The main reason
that people are not happy with the results of using lime wash is that it
rubs off with a chalky residue on your clothes etc, but this is caused by
lack of knowledge about its use, applying it too thickly, and not rubbing it
in well enough. I think that spraying it on would almost certainly result in
too thick a coat, and could not replicate the rubbing action.
Barbara

WARNING: Strawbale building can seriously transform your life!

Amazon Nails
Strawbale Building, Training and Consultancy
Hollinroyd Farm
Todmorden
OL14 8RJ

Tel/fax: 00 44 (0)1706 814696
email: info@...
web: www.strawbalefutures.org.uk


- -----Original Message-----
From: GSBN [<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...]On";>mailto:GSBN@...]On</a> Behalf Of Paul Lacinski
Sent: 02 May 2006 02:51
To: GSBN
Subject: Re: GSBN:Lime Wash

Hi Jeff,

I have sprayed limewash with an airless paint sprayer, with mixed
results.  The key seems to be to get a large enough orifice so that
the lime particles don't cause it to clog.  The normal orifice that
came from the rental yard was too fine.  It did apply the material
with a reasonable degree of impact, which seems helpful.  It wasn't
quite successful enough that we kept doing it, though for a project
this large I would probably look into it again.

But really, I would agree with Bill.  I've only seen silicate paint
in action once, but it definitely seemed an improvement over limewash.

Paul

>Jeff,
>Is the limewash for the outside or inside of the building?  Reason I
>ask is that for me it would seem to make sense on the inside of the
>structure where the antiseptic benefits would be advantageous.
>However, for that to be a factor the limewash would have to be
>applied on a frequent (annual?) basis to be effective.  There is a
>lime paint, the name of which I can't recall, that Harry Francis has
>brought up in the past as being particularly good for a number of
>reasons.  Perhaps he can respond with current info.  On the exterior
>why not take advantage of the lime of silicate paints offered by the
>fellows at Eco-House.  It would provide a similar soft matt look,
>resist water absorption while remaining vapor open like the
>limewash.  Furthermore, rather than remain a coating on the wall, it
>would become part of the surface.
>Another idea that hasn't occurred to me in the past is that you could
>inquire whether or not lime could be added to the paint  base in
>place of the pigments.  It would also provide a binder for the lime
>which you very well might need anyway.
>
>Bill
>
>Athena &amp; Bill Steen
>The Canelo Project
>HC1 Box 324
>Canelo/Elgin, AZ 85611
>absteen@...
>www.caneloproject.com
>
>
>On Apr 26, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Jeff Ruppert wrote:
>
>>Hello Everyone,
>>
>>We are presently working on a rather large project (30,000 sf horse
>>arena and attached residence, all straw bale) and would like to
>>apply a
>>lime wash with pigment over the brown coat of plaster, which is
>>cement/lime, to roughly 15,000 sf of surface area.
>>
>>My question is, has anyone ever tried spraying lime wash?  The huge
>>amount of surface area is leading me to try and find a faster way of
>>applying it other than by brush or roller.  We have access to both
>>hydrated and hydraulic lime.
>>
>>Also, I know there have been discussions on these lists regarding size
>>of SB structure so I don't want to ask everyone if there is a
>>larger SB
>>structure than this one (I am sure there is!), but this one definitely
>>is "up there" in terms of size.  Make a mental note if anyone ever
>>asks
>>how large you can go.  We have 20 ft tall walls included in the 15,000
>>sf of wall system on this project.  It is all three-string bales
>>stacked
>>on-edge.
>>
>>Here are some pictures for your delight!  Thanks in advance for any
>>help.
>>
>><a  target="_blank" href="http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php";>http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php</a>?
>>g2_view=core.ShowItem&amp;g2_itemId=105&amp;g2_navId=xba8dd562
>>
>>Sorry about the use of cement plaster!  A project of this scale
>>with six
>>feet of snow on the ground in the winter, big winds, and a "real-life"
>>time window, nothing compares with the cost, durability, and available
>>labor.  Thank goodness we live in a VERY dry climate!
>>
>>
>>Jeff Ruppert, P.E.
>>Principal
>>
>>Odisea LLC
>>Ecological Building, Engineering and Consulting
>>
>>Front Range Office            West Slope Office
>>1731 15th St. #105            1022 Main St.
>>Boulder, CO  80302            Carbondale, CO 81623
>>303.443.4335                  970.948.5744
>>303.443.4355 f                        1.866.795.6699 f
>>jeff@...
>>www.odiseanet.com
>>----
>>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>>technical editing arm.
>>
>>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>>SUBJECT line.  ----
>>
>
>----
>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>technical editing arm.
>
>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>SUBJECT line. ----


- --
Amy Klippenstein
Paul Lacinski
Sidehill Farm
GreenSpace Collaborative
PO Box 107
Ashfield MA 01330
(413) 625 - 0011
- ----
GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
as an advisory board and technical editing arm.

For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
- ----



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 May 2006 12:01:27 -0600
From: Tom Hahn tomhahn@...
Subject: Update: Link to images of our most recent SB project

Hello everyone - Apologies for the resend of some of this info... But
being new to the list, I didn't realize  attachments were restricted,
and the images I had included in the previous email about this
project were automatically removed.

So, for those of you whose appetite I whetted for seeing the images
that didn't make it into the previous email, here's a direct link to
the page on the Sol Source website with photos and drawings of the
project...

<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.ssiarch.com/PROJECTS/200204_ROEBUCKsbres.html";>http://www.ssiarch.com/PROJECTS/200204_ROEBUCKsbres.html</a>


 From the earlier email, about the project...

"It's a heavy-steel (owner's choice) non-load-bearing house just in
the final throes of completion in Apache Junction, AZ, about 40 miles
east of central Phoenix...

It has lots of "zoom" because we wanted to exploit the strength of
the steel to meet the challenge of acknowledging the gorgeous east
view toward the Superstition Mountains, while wanting to shield from
the sun and views to other not-so-wonderful houses...  With the
light-steel interior framing and use of recycled composite lumber for
sole plates and rough-openings, we just about managed to not use any
wood (except for roof sheathing).

To help with your orientation to the photos, the clerestories faces
north (to avoid the hot desert sun, and get soft north daylight..."


I look forward to sharing more and getting feedback on our design and
construction adventures integrating straw-bale with mainstream
systems like heavy steel framing, heavy-load (20" dia.) concrete
columns, fire sprinklers, and commercial windows and doors...

Tom Hahn


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 May 2006 15:43:49 -0600
From: larskeller@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Lime Wash

Hi Jeff,

I cannot contribute with knowledge regarding spraying or not, but
regarding the silicate paint I can add, that it is being used in
Denmark on earthen exterior surfaces, when money is not a shortage. It
is not an ageold technique in Denmark, but it seems to be doing very
well.

Lars

2006/5/2, Paul Lacinski paul@...:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> I have sprayed limewash with an airless paint sprayer, with mixed
> results.  The key seems to be to get a large enough orifice so that
> the lime particles don't cause it to clog.  The normal orifice that
> came from the rental yard was too fine.  It did apply the material
> with a reasonable degree of impact, which seems helpful.  It wasn't
> quite successful enough that we kept doing it, though for a project
> this large I would probably look into it again.
>
> But really, I would agree with Bill.  I've only seen silicate paint
> in action once, but it definitely seemed an improvement over limewash.
>
> Paul
>
> >Jeff,
> >Is the limewash for the outside or inside of the building?  Reason I
> >ask is that for me it would seem to make sense on the inside of the
> >structure where the antiseptic benefits would be advantageous.
> >However, for that to be a factor the limewash would have to be
> >applied on a frequent (annual?) basis to be effective.  There is a
> >lime paint, the name of which I can't recall, that Harry Francis has
> >brought up in the past as being particularly good for a number of
> >reasons.  Perhaps he can respond with current info.  On the exterior
> >why not take advantage of the lime of silicate paints offered by the
> >fellows at Eco-House.  It would provide a similar soft matt look,
> >resist water absorption while remaining vapor open like the
> >limewash.  Furthermore, rather than remain a coating on the wall, it
> >would become part of the surface.
> >Another idea that hasn't occurred to me in the past is that you could
> >inquire whether or not lime could be added to the paint  base in
> >place of the pigments.  It would also provide a binder for the lime
> >which you very well might need anyway.
> >
> >Bill
> >
> >Athena &amp; Bill Steen
> >The Canelo Project
> >HC1 Box 324
> >Canelo/Elgin, AZ 85611
> >absteen@...
> >www.caneloproject.com
> >
> >
> >On Apr 26, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Jeff Ruppert wrote:
> >
> >>Hello Everyone,
> >>
> >>We are presently working on a rather large project (30,000 sf horse
> >>arena and attached residence, all straw bale) and would like to
> >>apply a
> >>lime wash with pigment over the brown coat of plaster, which is
> >>cement/lime, to roughly 15,000 sf of surface area.
> >>
> >>My question is, has anyone ever tried spraying lime wash?  The huge
> >>amount of surface area is leading me to try and find a faster way of
> >>applying it other than by brush or roller.  We have access to both
> >>hydrated and hydraulic lime.
> >>
> >>Also, I know there have been discussions on these lists regarding size
> >>of SB structure so I don't want to ask everyone if there is a
> >>larger SB
> >>structure than this one (I am sure there is!), but this one definitely
> >>is "up there" in terms of size.  Make a mental note if anyone ever
> >>asks
> >>how large you can go.  We have 20 ft tall walls included in the 15,000
> >>sf of wall system on this project.  It is all three-string bales
> >>stacked
> >>on-edge.
> >>
> >>Here are some pictures for your delight!  Thanks in advance for any
> >>help.
> >>
> >><a  target="_blank" href="http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php";>http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php</a>?
> >>g2_view=core.ShowItem&amp;g2_itemId=105&amp;g2_navId=xba8dd562
> >>
> >>Sorry about the use of cement plaster!  A project of this scale
> >>with six
> >>feet of snow on the ground in the winter, big winds, and a "real-life"
> >>time window, nothing compares with the cost, durability, and available
> >>labor.  Thank goodness we live in a VERY dry climate!
> >>
> >>
> >>Jeff Ruppert, P.E.
> >>Principal
> >>
> >>Odisea LLC
> >>Ecological Building, Engineering and Consulting
> >>
> >>Front Range Office		West Slope Office
> >>1731 15th St. #105		1022 Main St.
> >>Boulder, CO  80302		Carbondale, CO 81623
> >>303.443.4335			970.948.5744
> >>303.443.4355 f			1.866.795.6699 f
> >>jeff@...
> >>www.odiseanet.com
> >>----
> >>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
> >>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
> >>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
> >>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
> >>technical editing arm.
> >>
> >>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
> >>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
> >>SUBJECT line.  ----
> >>
> >
> >----
> >GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
> >representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
> >costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
> >Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
> >technical editing arm.
> >
> >For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
> >list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
> >SUBJECT line. ----
>
>
> --
> Amy Klippenstein
> Paul Lacinski
> Sidehill Farm
> GreenSpace Collaborative
> PO Box 107
> Ashfield MA 01330
> (413) 625 - 0011
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this list
> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN
> as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>


- --
~~~

Jo, Asger og jeg er pt I Australien. Vi er i Danmark igen til november.
Marts, april og maj maaned kan vi traeffes paa nedenstaende adresse og
tlf-numre.

Jo, Asger and I are in Australia until November this year. During
March, April and May our contacts are:

jomorandin@...
larskeller@...

Lars, Jo og Asger
Seli Hoo
31 Addison Road
Black Forest
Adelaide
SA 5035
Australien

Fast nettlf: 0061 8 8297 6249
Mobiltlf: 0061 405 366 455
~~~


----------------------------------------------------------------------

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