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GSBN: Digest for 5/3/06



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-> Re: GSBN:Lime Wash
     by "timok" timok@...
-> Re: GSBN:Lime Wash
     by jeff@...
-> Fw: The First Strawbale house in Sri Lanka
     by "Helen Bernard" imagine@...
-> Re: GSBN:Lime Wash
     by Athena & Bill Steen absteen@...
-> Re: GSBN:Lime Wash
     by jeff@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 May 2006 17:22:29 -0600
From: "timok" timok@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Lime Wash

This bounced a few days ago...


Hi Jeff,

We have used texture guns and airless sprayers to apply lime wash and found
them to be unsuccessful enough that we hand rolled 15,000 sq feet of it at
Ridge winery. We were using the vertical pulverized quicklime which we slake
and now sell through the few "green resource" stores in California. I
believe that the aeration that occurs in spraying defeats the wet bonding
suction of hand applied lime wash even when it is back rolled. More coats of
a thinner (more water) mix over a hose soaked wall that is back rolled is
something I might try in your scenario but we have found that high and large
walls get done fairly quickly with 18" rollers. We also found the use of
scissor lifts to be invaluable in quality and body control...for another
post.

Best of luck,

Tim
Lars Keller writes:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> I cannot contribute with knowledge regarding spraying or not, but
> regarding the silicate paint I can add, that it is being used in
> Denmark on earthen exterior surfaces, when money is not a shortage. It
> is not an ageold technique in Denmark, but it seems to be doing very
> well.
>
> Lars
>
> 2006/5/2, Paul Lacinski paul@...:
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> I have sprayed limewash with an airless paint sprayer, with mixed
>> results.  The key seems to be to get a large enough orifice so that
>> the lime particles don't cause it to clog.  The normal orifice that
>> came from the rental yard was too fine.  It did apply the material
>> with a reasonable degree of impact, which seems helpful.  It wasn't
>> quite successful enough that we kept doing it, though for a project
>> this large I would probably look into it again.
>>
>> But really, I would agree with Bill.  I've only seen silicate paint
>> in action once, but it definitely seemed an improvement over limewash.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> >Jeff,
>> >Is the limewash for the outside or inside of the building?  Reason I
>> >ask is that for me it would seem to make sense on the inside of the
>> >structure where the antiseptic benefits would be advantageous.
>> >However, for that to be a factor the limewash would have to be
>> >applied on a frequent (annual?) basis to be effective.  There is a
>> >lime paint, the name of which I can't recall, that Harry Francis has
>> >brought up in the past as being particularly good for a number of
>> >reasons.  Perhaps he can respond with current info.  On the exterior
>> >why not take advantage of the lime of silicate paints offered by the
>> >fellows at Eco-House.  It would provide a similar soft matt look,
>> >resist water absorption while remaining vapor open like the
>> >limewash.  Furthermore, rather than remain a coating on the wall, it
>> >would become part of the surface.
>> >Another idea that hasn't occurred to me in the past is that you could
>> >inquire whether or not lime could be added to the paint  base in
>> >place of the pigments.  It would also provide a binder for the lime
>> >which you very well might need anyway.
>> >
>> >Bill
>> >
>> >Athena & Bill Steen
>> >The Canelo Project
>> >HC1 Box 324
>> >Canelo/Elgin, AZ 85611
>> >absteen@...
>> >www.caneloproject.com
>> >
>> >
>> >On Apr 26, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Jeff Ruppert wrote:
>> >
>> >>Hello Everyone,
>> >>
>> >>We are presently working on a rather large project (30,000 sf horse
>> >>arena and attached residence, all straw bale) and would like to
>> >>apply a
>> >>lime wash with pigment over the brown coat of plaster, which is
>> >>cement/lime, to roughly 15,000 sf of surface area.
>> >>
>> >>My question is, has anyone ever tried spraying lime wash?  The huge
>> >>amount of surface area is leading me to try and find a faster way of
>> >>applying it other than by brush or roller.  We have access to both
>> >>hydrated and hydraulic lime.
>> >>
>> >>Also, I know there have been discussions on these lists regarding size
>> >>of SB structure so I don't want to ask everyone if there is a
>> >>larger SB
>> >>structure than this one (I am sure there is!), but this one definitely
>> >>is "up there" in terms of size.  Make a mental note if anyone ever
>> >>asks
>> >>how large you can go.  We have 20 ft tall walls included in the 15,000
>> >>sf of wall system on this project.  It is all three-string bales
>> >>stacked
>> >>on-edge.
>> >>
>> >>Here are some pictures for your delight!  Thanks in advance for any
>> >>help.
>> >>
>> >><a  target="_blank" href="http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php";>http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php</a>?
>> >>g2_view=core.ShowItem&amp;g2_itemId=105&amp;g2_navId=xba8dd562
>> >>
>> >>Sorry about the use of cement plaster!  A project of this scale
>> >>with six
>> >>feet of snow on the ground in the winter, big winds, and a "real-life"
>> >>time window, nothing compares with the cost, durability, and available
>> >>labor.  Thank goodness we live in a VERY dry climate!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Jeff Ruppert, P.E.
>> >>Principal
>> >>
>> >>Odisea LLC
>> >>Ecological Building, Engineering and Consulting
>> >>
>> >>Front Range Office		West Slope Office
>> >>1731 15th St. #105		1022 Main St.
>> >>Boulder, CO  80302		Carbondale, CO 81623
>> >>303.443.4335			970.948.5744
>> >>303.443.4355 f			1.866.795.6699 f
>> >>jeff@...
>> >>www.odiseanet.com
>> >>----
>> >>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>> >>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>> >>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>> >>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>> >>technical editing arm.
>> >>
>> >>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>> >>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>> >>SUBJECT line.  ----
>> >>
>> >
>> >----
>> >GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>> >representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>> >costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>> >Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>> >technical editing arm.
>> >
>> >For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>> >list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>> >SUBJECT line. ----
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amy Klippenstein
>> Paul Lacinski
>> Sidehill Farm
>> GreenSpace Collaborative
>> PO Box 107
>> Ashfield MA 01330
>> (413) 625 - 0011
>> ----
>> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives
>> of
>> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
>> list
>> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
>> GSBN
>> as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>>
>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
>> send
>> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
>> ----
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ~~~
>
> Jo, Asger og jeg er pt I Australien. Vi er i Danmark igen til november.
> Marts, april og maj maaned kan vi traeffes paa nedenstaende adresse og
> tlf-numre.
>
> Jo, Asger and I are in Australia until November this year. During
> March, April and May our contacts are:
>
> jomorandin@...
> larskeller@...
>
> Lars, Jo og Asger
> Seli Hoo
> 31 Addison Road
> Black Forest
> Adelaide
> SA 5035
> Australien
>
> Fast nettlf: 0061 8 8297 6249
> Mobiltlf: 0061 405 366 455
> ~~~
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives of
> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
> list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
> GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 May 2006 17:52:19 -0600
From: jeff@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Lime Wash

Tim,

Thanks!  I think we will go ahead and roll it on.  It doesn't seem too
daunting based on the various feedback.  We have a tele-forklift on the
site which we used to stack and lath, which is, as you said, invaluable.

Thanks again for the help.  Hope you are doing well.

Jeff Ruppert, P.E.
Principal

Odisea LLC
Ecological Building, Engineering and Consulting

Front Range Office 		West Slope Office
1731 15th St. #105		1022 Main St.
Boulder, CO  80302		Carbondale, CO 81623
303.443.4335			970.948.5744
303.443.4355 f			1.866.795.6699 f
jeff@...
www.odiseanet.com


timok wrote:
> This bounced a few days ago...
>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> We have used texture guns and airless sprayers to apply lime wash and found
> them to be unsuccessful enough that we hand rolled 15,000 sq feet of it at
> Ridge winery. We were using the vertical pulverized quicklime which we
> slake
> and now sell through the few "green resource" stores in California. I
> believe that the aeration that occurs in spraying defeats the wet bonding
> suction of hand applied lime wash even when it is back rolled. More
> coats of
> a thinner (more water) mix over a hose soaked wall that is back rolled is
> something I might try in your scenario but we have found that high and
> large
> walls get done fairly quickly with 18" rollers. We also found the use of
> scissor lifts to be invaluable in quality and body control...for another
> post.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Tim
> Lars Keller writes:
>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> I cannot contribute with knowledge regarding spraying or not, but
>> regarding the silicate paint I can add, that it is being used in
>> Denmark on earthen exterior surfaces, when money is not a shortage. It
>> is not an ageold technique in Denmark, but it seems to be doing very
>> well.
>>
>> Lars
>>
>> 2006/5/2, Paul Lacinski paul@...:
>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>
>>> I have sprayed limewash with an airless paint sprayer, with mixed
>>> results.  The key seems to be to get a large enough orifice so that
>>> the lime particles don't cause it to clog.  The normal orifice that
>>> came from the rental yard was too fine.  It did apply the material
>>> with a reasonable degree of impact, which seems helpful.  It wasn't
>>> quite successful enough that we kept doing it, though for a project
>>> this large I would probably look into it again.
>>>
>>> But really, I would agree with Bill.  I've only seen silicate paint
>>> in action once, but it definitely seemed an improvement over limewash.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> >Jeff,
>>> >Is the limewash for the outside or inside of the building?  Reason I
>>> >ask is that for me it would seem to make sense on the inside of the
>>> >structure where the antiseptic benefits would be advantageous.
>>> >However, for that to be a factor the limewash would have to be
>>> >applied on a frequent (annual?) basis to be effective.  There is a
>>> >lime paint, the name of which I can't recall, that Harry Francis has
>>> >brought up in the past as being particularly good for a number of
>>> >reasons.  Perhaps he can respond with current info.  On the exterior
>>> >why not take advantage of the lime of silicate paints offered by the
>>> >fellows at Eco-House.  It would provide a similar soft matt look,
>>> >resist water absorption while remaining vapor open like the
>>> >limewash.  Furthermore, rather than remain a coating on the wall, it
>>> >would become part of the surface.
>>> >Another idea that hasn't occurred to me in the past is that you could
>>> >inquire whether or not lime could be added to the paint  base in
>>> >place of the pigments.  It would also provide a binder for the lime
>>> >which you very well might need anyway.
>>> >
>>> >Bill
>>> >
>>> >Athena &amp; Bill Steen
>>> >The Canelo Project
>>> >HC1 Box 324
>>> >Canelo/Elgin, AZ 85611
>>> >absteen@...
>>> >www.caneloproject.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Apr 26, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Jeff Ruppert wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>Hello Everyone,
>>> >>
>>> >>We are presently working on a rather large project (30,000 sf horse
>>> >>arena and attached residence, all straw bale) and would like to
>>> >>apply a
>>> >>lime wash with pigment over the brown coat of plaster, which is
>>> >>cement/lime, to roughly 15,000 sf of surface area.
>>> >>
>>> >>My question is, has anyone ever tried spraying lime wash?  The huge
>>> >>amount of surface area is leading me to try and find a faster way of
>>> >>applying it other than by brush or roller.  We have access to both
>>> >>hydrated and hydraulic lime.
>>> >>
>>> >>Also, I know there have been discussions on these lists regarding size
>>> >>of SB structure so I don't want to ask everyone if there is a
>>> >>larger SB
>>> >>structure than this one (I am sure there is!), but this one definitely
>>> >>is "up there" in terms of size.  Make a mental note if anyone ever
>>> >>asks
>>> >>how large you can go.  We have 20 ft tall walls included in the 15,000
>>> >>sf of wall system on this project.  It is all three-string bales
>>> >>stacked
>>> >>on-edge.
>>> >>
>>> >>Here are some pictures for your delight!  Thanks in advance for any
>>> >>help.
>>> >>
>>> >><a  target="_blank" href="http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php";>http://photos.odiseanet.com/main/gallery2/main.php</a>?
>>> >>g2_view=core.ShowItem&amp;g2_itemId=105&amp;g2_navId=xba8dd562
>>> >>
>>> >>Sorry about the use of cement plaster!  A project of this scale
>>> >>with six
>>> >>feet of snow on the ground in the winter, big winds, and a "real-life"
>>> >>time window, nothing compares with the cost, durability, and available
>>> >>labor.  Thank goodness we live in a VERY dry climate!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>Jeff Ruppert, P.E.
>>> >>Principal
>>> >>
>>> >>Odisea LLC
>>> >>Ecological Building, Engineering and Consulting
>>> >>
>>> >>Front Range Office        West Slope Office
>>> >>1731 15th St. #105        1022 Main St.
>>> >>Boulder, CO  80302        Carbondale, CO 81623
>>> >>303.443.4335            970.948.5744
>>> >>303.443.4355 f            1.866.795.6699 f
>>> >>jeff@...
>>> >>www.odiseanet.com
>>> >>----
>>> >>GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>>> >>representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>>> >>costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>>> >>Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>>> >>technical editing arm.
>>> >>
>>> >>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>>> >>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>>> >>SUBJECT line.  ----
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >----
>>> >GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>>> >representatives of regional straw construction organizations. The
>>> >costs of operating this list are underwritten by The Last Straw
>>> >Journal in exchange for use of the GSBN as an advisory board and
>>> >technical editing arm.
>>> >
>>> >For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>>> >list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>>> >SUBJECT line. ----
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amy Klippenstein
>>> Paul Lacinski
>>> Sidehill Farm
>>> GreenSpace Collaborative
>>> PO Box 107
>>> Ashfield MA 01330
>>> (413) 625 - 0011
>>> ----
>>> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives
>>> of
>>> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
>>> list
>>> are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of the
>>> GSBN
>>> as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>>>
>>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
>>> send
>>> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~~~
>>
>> Jo, Asger og jeg er pt I Australien. Vi er i Danmark igen til november.
>> Marts, april og maj maaned kan vi traeffes paa nedenstaende adresse og
>> tlf-numre.
>>
>> Jo, Asger and I are in Australia until November this year. During
>> March, April and May our contacts are:
>>
>> jomorandin@...
>> larskeller@...
>>
>> Lars, Jo og Asger
>> Seli Hoo
>> 31 Addison Road
>> Black Forest
>> Adelaide
>> SA 5035
>> Australien
>>
>> Fast nettlf: 0061 8 8297 6249
>> Mobiltlf: 0061 405 366 455
>> ~~~
>> ----
>> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and
>> representatives of
>> regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating this
>> list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use of
>> the
>> GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>>
>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
>> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
>> ----
>>
>
>
> ----
> GSBN is an invitation-only forum of key individuals and representatives
> of regional straw construction organizations. The costs of operating
> this list are underwritten by The Last Straw Journal in exchange for use
> of the GSBN as an advisory board and technical editing arm.
>
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT
> line.  ----
>
>
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 May 2006 18:50:20 -0600
From: "Helen Bernard" imagine@...
Subject: Fw: The First Strawbale house in Sri Lanka

Hi everyone,
today we have received this email from a Sri Lankan man who, with his Japanese
colleague, has built a strawbale house in Sri Lanka as part of a community
project they have been working on for many years. they would like to share
this with the wider strawbale community, so i am passing his email onto you
all.
regards,
Per &amp; Helen Bernard

www.unicornhouse.net
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Piyal Ganepola 
To: imagine@...
Cc: flyingpig@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: The First Strawbale house in Sri Lanka


Ms.Helen Bernard,
Dear Helen,
Let me first recall you of me(Piyal- a Sri Lankan) and my collegue, a Japanese
person named Inagami Shozo, whom you met in Daylesford in May 2002.Our mission
was to examine the performance of strawbale construction.We stayed at Flying
Pig of Maureen Peterson.Thanks to information and the inpiration we got from
you and Maureen, we worked to build a prototype strawbale house in Sri Lanka.
We took some time to do this particularly because we had to design and
manufcture a bailing machine as in Sri Lanka it is hard to find one.Anyway,
finally we suceeded in developing a machine which operates completely manually
by three persons without having to use any fuels to operate, making the whole
process completely eco friendly. 
We like to present our project to international strawbale community and like
to know from you of any forthcomming events where we can make a presentation
about the first straw bale house built in Sri Lanka.
Best regards!
Piyal Ganepola

- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
- ---


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 May 2006 21:14:26 -0600
From: Athena &amp; Bill Steen absteen@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Lime Wash

Jeff,
I would really suggest that you run a few tests or simulations of
what you plan to do before you jump into it.  Beyond the application
I think you want to make sure that you've got something that won't
dust or rub off.  I agree with Barbara totally when she talked about
the rubbing in circular motions as being important to success.
Another way of saying it might be burnishing and in my experience it
makes a difference.

Bill

Athena &amp; Bill Steen
The Canelo Project
HC1 Box 324
Canelo/Elgin, AZ 85611
absteen@...
www.caneloproject.com


On May 3, 2006, at 4:37 PM, Jeff Ruppert wrote:

> Tim,
>
> Thanks!  I think we will go ahead and roll it on.  It doesn't seem too
> daunting based on the various feedback.  d be advantageous.
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 May 2006 23:15:43 -0600
From: jeff@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Lime Wash

Bill,

Test patches are always in order.  On this particular project, dust is
less of an issue than most applications.  From one perspective, the dust
from the horses in the arena will mask most of the dusting of the wash
itself, i think, ie. there won't be people rubbing up against the walls
regularly, and lots of dust from horse activity.  I am leaning towards
applying it with a roller, and what i am most interested in is if there
are any binding agents i can use in the mix, such as milk with clay.  I
understand that the suggestions given so far have been with regards to
how it is worked.  Is there really no inert additive to lime that will
bind like milk does with clay?

I could see reacting the lime wash with siloxane or some other silica
solution like potassium(?) silicate after the initial application.  But
the question still stands.  Is there anything as an additive that would
bind it better than nothing at all?

And thanks y'all for the good help on this topic!

Many cheers from the middle of the continent!

Jeff Ruppert, P.E.
Principal

Odisea LLC
Ecological Building, Engineering and Consulting

Front Range Office 		West Slope Office
1731 15th St. #105		1022 Main St.
Boulder, CO  80302		Carbondale, CO 81623
303.443.4335			970.948.5744
303.443.4355 f			1.866.795.6699 f
jeff@...
www.odiseanet.com



----------------------------------------------------------------------

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