[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[GSBN-Greenbuilder] Fwd: GSBN:Off The Wall Journal article -- the truth!



<x-html><!x-stuff-for-pete base="" src="" id="0" charset="">
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd&quot";>http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd&quot</a>;>
<html>
<head>
</head>

<!-- Network content -->


<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">

<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
  <div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left;  z-index:1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->

    <div id="ygrp-text">
            <p>>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:20:49 -0700 
>From: Bruce King <<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:ecobruce@...";>mailto:ecobruce@...>ecobruce@...> 
>Subject: GSBN:Off The Wall Journal article -- the truth! 
>To: "GSBN" <<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@...> 
>Reply-To: "GSBN" <<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@...> 
>Sender: "GSBN" <<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@...> 
> 
> 
>On Aug 10, 2006, at 12:40 PM, John Swearingen wrote: 
> 
>>The WSJ article concluded: "'The lessons learned is that with straw 
>>bale, 
>>everything has to happen perfectly for it to go right' says Mr.. Smith 
>>[the 
>>architect, no relation to Dan].'But it turned out to be a beautiful 
>>building." 
>> 
>>That's an interesting lesson, since in all my years in construction 
>>I've 
>>never known "everything to happen perfectly", and if it did, I 
>>wouldn't have 
>>much to do . . . 
> 
> 
>The article was the reporter's best attempt to reconcile the fact that 
>a certain architect  who is not Dan Smith -- and who had prompted the 
>article in the first place -- had royally screwed up the design.  It 
>was a classic case of architectural and engineering hubris, and they 
>made every possible mistake in the book, and even invented some new 
>ones (despite Sigi Koko's urging them to work with a local (California) 
>engineer familiar with straw bale.)  The pictures in the article look 
>nice, but belie the story of incompetence and, when the shit hit the 
>fan, blame.  I got involved as Rick Green's "expert witness" when they 
>tried to scapegoat him for all their mistakes, when all he had done was 
>warn them of potential problems before installing the bales. 
>Thankfully, the reporter didn't quote me as having said that "they 
>really screwed the pooch on that one". 
> 
>(for those of you on the list whose english is maybe not so good, 
>you'll have to find someone else to translate that expression for you. 
>This is a family forum, right?) 
> 
>>But the article, overall, does bring up the issue of moving 
>>straw bale to the commercial and large-scale market. Our experience 
>>with 
>>Presentation Center, which was by the real Dan Smith, was that that 
>>the mind 
>>set of regular commercial builders and subcontractors, very different 
>>from 
>>custom residential builders, doesn't always lend itself to the 
>>fussiness, 
>>care, and creativity that straw bale construction can demand. This 
>>requires 
>>adult supervision from both the architect and the builder--not just 
>>one. 
>> 
>>What's the lesson learned?  I think it might be a good topic for 
>>discussion, 
>>and here's my two cents worth: 
>> 
>>*	From the design point of view, it's important in commercial design 
>>for the architect to bring in experienced contractors and other 
>>consultants 
>>(engineers) and get differing opinions and ideas from several, in 
>>order to 
>>select and detail building assemblies and systems.  We tend to all 
>>have our 
>>own pet systems, and the designer needs to do the work to evaluate 
>>which 
>>system is appropriate for his project. 
> 
>Right on.  Or, as illustrated and described above -- what happens if 
>you DON'T do as Balehead suggests. 
> 
>>*	For construction, recognizing that strawbale will be new to most 
>>people on the job, the builder needs to be prepared to offer the 
>>resources 
>>necessary to solve problems, educate subcontractors, and provide an 
>>extra 
>>level of care and vigilance.  This might mean a small extra expense 
>>and some 
>>effort for the builder, but will provide insurance against costly 
>>construction errors, cost overruns, and building failures. 
> 
>Same comment. 
> 
>>It still ain't rocket science, or even brain surgery.  You CAN do this 
>>at 
>>home.  But if you invite a bunch of commercial builders to do your 
>>job, you 
>>had better stay on top of it! 
> 
>John, well-put, and I completely agree.  To my knowledge, every big or 
>"glam" architectural firm that has so far dabbled in straw bale has 
>messed it up, typically because they don't get or accept good advice. 
>Now that we've passed the big fire test (results should be downloadable 
>by August 25 or so), straw bale is free to enter commercial, retail, 
>institutional, correctional (!!), and just about any kind of 
>construction area. 
> 
>Hold on to your hats, folks.  things might get a bit wild. 
> 
>Bruce King 
>Purveyor of fine legal and engineering advice, Christian-pagan music, 
>and hallucinatory rants 
> 
>---- 
>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN  
>list, send email to <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@... with HELP in the  
>SUBJECT line.  ---- 
 
</p>
    </div>  

    <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
    <span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
    <!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
    <div id="ygrp-actbar">
              <span class="left">
          <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/message/1037;_ylc=X3oDMTM0cmc5c3UwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBG1zZ0lkAzEwMzcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2BHRwY0lkAzEwMzc-&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/message/1037;_ylc=X3oDMTM0cmc5c3UwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBG1zZ0lkAzEwMzcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2BHRwY0lkAzEwMzc-&quot</a>;>
            Messages in this topic          </a> (<span class="bld">1</span>)
        </span>
        <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwbWN2cWptBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBG1zZ0lkAzEwMzcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2?act=reply&amp;messageNum=1037&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwbWN2cWptBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBG1zZ0lkAzEwMzcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2?act=reply&amp;messageNum=1037&quot</a>;>
          <span class="bld">
            Reply          </span> (via web post)
        </a>  | 
        <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldHVpdTJvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldHVpdTJvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot</a>; class="bld">
          Start a new topic        </a>
          </div> 
    <!-------     Start Nav Bar  ------>
    <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
    <div id="ygrp-vitnav">
                <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc29qYWRhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc29qYWRhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot</a>;>Messages</a>  
            |    <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNWo2cmg2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNWo2cmg2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot</a>;>Files</a>  
            |    <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGQ3Nm92BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGQ3Nm92BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot</a>;>Photos</a>  
            |    <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmamJnOWVpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmamJnOWVpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot</a>;>Links</a>  
            |    <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJjMzVobW9uBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJjMzVobW9uBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot</a>;>Database</a>  
            |    <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdGplNzk0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdGplNzk0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot</a>;>Polls</a>  
            |    <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJldXZhNHQ5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJldXZhNHQ5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot</a>;>Members</a>  
            |    <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOWpxMThxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOWpxMThxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2&quot</a>;>Calendar</a>  
    </div>  
    <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->

    <!-- Do not have place to put it yet -->
    <div id="ygrp-grft">
          </div>

    <!-- yahoo logo -->
    <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
    <div id="ygrp-ft">
      <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbjk5MzlzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbjk5MzlzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2&quot</a>;>
      <img src="<a  target="_blank" href="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif&quot";>http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif&quot</a>; height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a>  
      <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZXBkczJqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZXBkczJqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot</a>;>Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required)  
      Change settings via email: <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN-Greenbuilder-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email";>mailto:GSBN-Greenbuilder-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email</a> Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN-Greenbuilder-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change";>mailto:GSBN-Greenbuilder-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change</a> Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a>  

      <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdWZqaTR2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdWZqaTR2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2&quot</a>;>
        Visit Your Group 
      </a> |
      <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/&quot";>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/&quot</a>;>
        Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use      </a> |
      <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN-Greenbuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=&quot";>mailto:GSBN-Greenbuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=&quot</a>;>
        Unsubscribe      </a> 
    </div>     <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
  </div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->

  
  <!-- Sponsor -->
  <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
  <div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:140px;float: left; clear: none; margin-left: 5px; background:white; margin-bottom:25px ;position:absolute; top:0; right: 0;">
    <!-- Network content -->
    
    <!-- Start vitality -->
    <div id="ygrp-vital">
            <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZmZidnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSBN-Greenbuilder;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZmZidnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg1MjY3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjE5MTEyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE2ODY0ODQwNg--&quot</a>;>
        Visit Your Group      </a>
    </div> 
    
    <!-- Network content -->
                <div id="nc">
              <div class="ad">
                        <div id="hd1">Give Back</div>
  <p><a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJtMW91MXU2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzEEZ3JwSWQDODUyNjczNQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDcyMTkxMTIEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawNicmFuZARzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2;_ylg=1/SIG=11314uv3k/**http%3a//brand.yahoo.com/forgood&quot";>http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJtMW91MXU2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzEEZ3JwSWQDODUyNjczNQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDcyMTkxMTIEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawNicmFuZARzdGltZQMxMTY4NjQ4NDA2;_ylg=1/SIG=11314uv3k/**http%3a//brand.yahoo.com/forgood&quot</a>;>Yahoo! for Good</a></p>
  <p>Get inspired</p>
  <p>by a good cause.</p>
                  </div>
                    <div class="ad">
                        <div id="hd1">Y! Toolbar</div>
  <p><a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJvbnJsMW9pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDODUyNjczNQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDcyMTkxMTIEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawN0b29sYmFyBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-;_ylg=1/SIG=11c6dvmk9/**http%3a//toolbar.yahoo.com/%3f.cpdl=ygrps&quot";>http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJvbnJsMW9pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDODUyNjczNQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDcyMTkxMTIEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawN0b29sYmFyBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-;_ylg=1/SIG=11c6dvmk9/**http%3a//toolbar.yahoo.com/%3f.cpdl=ygrps&quot</a>;>Get it Free!</a></p>
  <p>easy 1-click access</p>
  <p>to your groups.</p>
                  </div>
                    <div class="ad">
                        <div id="hd1">Yahoo! Groups</div>
  <p><a href="<a  target="_blank" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/start;_ylc=X3oDMTJvZGZhc2FlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzMEZ3JwSWQDODUyNjczNQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDcyMTkxMTIEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawNncm91cHMyBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot";>http://groups.yahoo.com/start;_ylc=X3oDMTJvZGZhc2FlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzMEZ3JwSWQDODUyNjczNQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDcyMTkxMTIEc2VjA25jbW9kBHNsawNncm91cHMyBHN0aW1lAzExNjg2NDg0MDY-&quot</a>;>Start a group</a></p>
  <p>in 3 easy steps.</p>
  <p>Connect with others.</p>
                  </div>
          </div>
      
  </div>   <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
  <div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="<a  target="_blank" href="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8526735/grpspId=1707219112/msgId=1037/stime=1168648406/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3&quot";>http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8526735/grpspId=1707219112/msgId=1037/stime=1168648406/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3&quot</a>; width="1" height="1">  
<span  style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
    font-family: Georgia;	
}
#ygrp-text p{
    margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
    font-family: Arial;	
    clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
	padding-top: 10px;
	font-family: Verdana;
	font-size: 77%;
	margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
	padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
	clear: both;
	margin: 25px 0;
	white-space:nowrap;
	color: #666;
	text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
	float: left;
	white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
	font-family: Verdana;
	font-size: 77%;
	padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
  font-family: verdana;
  font-size: 77%;
  border-top: 1px solid #666; 
  padding: 5px 0; 
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
  padding-bottom: 10px;
}

#ygrp-vital{
	background-color: #e0ecee;
	margin-bottom: 20px;
	padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
	font-size: 77%;
	font-family: Verdana;
	font-weight: bold;
	color: #333;
	text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
	padding: 0;
	margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
  list-style-type: none;
  clear: both;
  border: 1px solid #e0ecee;  
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
  font-weight: bold;
  color: #ff7900;
  float: right;
  width: 2em;
  text-align:right;
  padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
  font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a {
	text-decoration: none;
}

#ygrp-vital a:hover{
  text-decoration: underline;
}

#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
	color: #999;
	font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
	padding: 6px 13px;
	background-color: #e0ecee;
	margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
	padding: 0 0 0 8px;
	margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
	list-style-type: square;
	padding: 6px 0;
	font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
	text-decoration: none;
	font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc {
  background-color: #eee;
  margin-bottom: 20px;
  padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
	padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
	font-family: Arial;
	font-weight: bold;
	color: #628c2a;
	font-size: 100%;
	line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
	text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
	text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
	margin: 0;
}
o {font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal {
   margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
  font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq {margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->


</x-html>