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[GSBN-Greenbuilder] Fwd: RE: GSBN:Compression & bumble bees



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            <p>>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:28:48 -0700 
>From: "John Swearingen" <<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:jswearingen@...";>mailto:jswearingen@...>jswearingen@...> 
>Subject: RE: GSBN:Compression &amp;amp; bumble bees 
>To: "'GSBN'" <<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@...> 
>Reply-To: "GSBN" <<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@...> 
>Sender: "GSBN" <<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@...> 
> 
>Ahhh, compression....the squishing of bales.  30%????!!!! 
> 
>Barbara's observations concur with everything I've heard, seen and measured 
>from the field--around 3-6% squishing under gravity loads (depending upon 
>the quality of bales), most of it happening in the first weeks.  With our 
>Kalifornia Terminator Bales (TM), we have to work really hard to get 2%, 
>using jacks and levers. This is commonly called compression, but I would 
>suggest that the bales are already quite compressed when we put them in the 
>walls.  It appears self-evident to me, that the majority of this "creep" has 
>to do with the bales settling in to one another, rather than squishing. 
>This is an important distinction. 
> 
>Thirty percent compression, as the German Scientists suggest, is....well, 
>Barbara said it politely: "I think it is always useful when conducting 
>research in laboratory conditions to check in with what happens in practice 
>as well." 
> 
>About plaster, Barbara went on, "A useful observation from the German tests 
>however is that load bearing bale walls do not require plaster in order to 
>make them structurally strong, which should add to the debate in the US on 
>this subject."  That the bales would work without plaster isn't in dispute, 
>but nobody has suggested, except for a few of us after a long day and a 
>couple of beers, to forget about the plaster altogether. 
> 
>And since it's there, the plaster might as well work. Compression loads will 
>travel to the stiffest element.  In the case of our bodies, it's our bones 
>(endoskeleton) that are stiffer than muscles and skin, and so we don't 
>collapse, even when jumping off of bale walls.  In the case of a plastered 
>bale wall, the plaster skins are stiffer than the bales, and so they take 
>the load FIRST.  If the load exceeds the capacity of the skins, the skins 
>crack (bones break), and the load is then taken by the bales which, we are 
>reassured by German Scientists, they will do very nicely.  
> 
>In earthquake country, we figure that skins will take most seismic events 
>without too much damage, but in a catastrophic quake will become useless 
>before the quake is finished--at which point the bales will bounce around 
>but not break.  The plaster, being stiffer than bales, keeps your windows 
>from breaking every time the ground quivers. 
> 
>Note: in order for this to work most effectively, the plaster skins would 
>rest on the foundation (rather than hang in air).  This is more true in 
>theory than practice, I think, because in reality the loads seem to transfer 
>in and out between the skin and bales. 
> 
>The question of plaster skins isn't one only of gravity loads, however. 
>Walls also bend and stretch apart (in the wind and earthquakes), and bales 
>don't do very well when pulled upon. In that case the other element of 
>plaster skins, lathing, can be very important. By surrounding the bales with 
>a basket of mesh the walls are held together, and loads which develop in 
>tension are confined and brought back into the bale walls, in compression. 
>This is a Very Good Thing, and allows the bumble bee bales to fly like an 
>eagle.  It is also a subject of debate, because lathing costs (a little) 
>money and trouble, and because if it's METAL lathing, it might turn the 
>occupants into electro-jellyfish due to EMF, which would be a Very Bad 
>Thing. 
> 
>John "Squish me in the Moonlight" Swearingen 
> 
> 
>John Swearingen 
>  SKILLFUL MEANS 
>design and construction 
>  www.skillful-means.com 
> 
> 
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: GSBN [mailto:<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@...] On Behalf Of 
>Strawbalefutures 
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 2:42 AM 
>To: GSBN 
>Subject: RE: GSBN:Compression &amp;amp; bumble bees 
> 
> 
>Hi Maren 
>It has to be made clear that the tests done in Germany showing the need for 
>so much pre-compression (30%) are not borne out in practice. They are very 
>interesting results and we need to understand them, but we have built a 2 
>storey loadbearing house that remained unplastered over the winter - that 
>is, had it's full load on the walls for several months - and the maximum 
>compression we had on the ground floor walls was 6%. We  know from many 
>practical experiences that loadbearing walls do compress a certain amount 
>under their full loading, that most of this happens in the first 2 weeks, 
>and that it has virtually stopped by 6 weeks. On top of this, there is the 
>effect of plaster on the walls, which definitely has an effect to reduce the 
>amount of compression experienced if it is applied before the 6 week period 
>is over. 
> 
>A useful observation from the German tests however is that loadbearing bale 
>walls do not require plaster in order to make them structurally strong, 
>which should add to the debate in the US on this subject. 
> 
>I think it is always useful when conducting research in laboratory 
>conditions to check in with what happens in practice as well. Hence the 
>inability of the bumble bee to fly analogy. 
> 
>Best wishes 
>Barbara 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>WARNING: Strawbale building can seriously transform your life! 
> 
>Amazon Nails 
>Strawbale Building, Training and Consultancy 
>Hollinroyd Farm 
>Todmorden 
>OL14 8RJ 
> 
>Tel/fax: 00 44 (0)1706 814696 
>email: <a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:info@...";>mailto:info@...>info@... 
>web: www.strawbalefutures.org.uk 
> 
> 
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: GSBN [mailto:<a href="<a  target="_blank" href="mailto:GSBN@...";>mailto:GSBN@...>GSBN@...]On Behalf Of Rene Dalmeijer 
>Sent: 22 August 2006 09:15 
>To: GSBN 
>Subject: Re: GSBN:Compression 
> 
>Maren, 
> 
>I just visited the FASBA (German SB association) gathering in Walthershausen 
>where 2 presenters focussed on this subject based on laboratory testing 
>trying to determine how much pre-tension is required to avoid creep with 
>unplastered bales. Basically what it boils down to is that you need 30% pre 
>compression on 100kg/m^3 dry density bales. ie practically impossible. At 
>the same time though I must clearly state that the tests being done are very 
>useful and will give us some very useful data on the behavior of unplastered 
>2 string and Jumbo bales. 
> 
>John Zahng of Australia has done similar plastered full wall tests and found 
>that about 4% pre-compression is required to avoid initial creep. This 
>figure roughly corresponds to what has been found in practice to be the 
>right amount of pre-compression. Incidentally the force-deflection curves 
>presented at the Fasba gathering exhibited the same flow as those found by 
>John Zahng. 
> 
>Rene 
>On Aug 22, 2006, at 06:54, Maren Termens wrote: 
> 
>>  Hi all, 
>> 
>>    does somebody know which pressure per area  it's needed to compress 
>>  Nebraska-walls? Or can you tell me which pressure are you normally 
>>  using? I'm looking after essays and tests which work with this item, I 
>>  couldn't find technical information about that. 
>>    Thanks a lot. 
>> 
>>    Maren 
>> 
>> 
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