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GSBN: Digest for 8/27/07



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-> Securing Bales
     by Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
-> Re: GSBN:Securing Bales
     by Bruce King ecobruce@...
-> Re: GSBN:Securing Bales
     by jswearingen@...
-> Re: GSBN:Securing Bales
     by Laura Bartels laura@...
-> Re: GSBN:Securing Bales
     by Chris Stafford Stafford@...
-> Re: GSBN:Securing Bales
     by Chris Stafford Stafford@...
-> Re: GSBN:Securing Bales
     by dan@...


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Date: 27 Aug 2007 15:32:54 -0500
From: Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
Subject: Securing Bales

I've heard from a couple of people that some builders are not securing the
bales with interior staking, exterior pinning, stitching, securing bales
with dowels through the box column, not using rebar coming up out of the
foundation or stem wall or footings.

Have you heard anything about this? Do you know why they would discontinue
this?

What type of pinning or staking or securing method do you use?

Joyce
- -------
Joyce Coppinger, Managing Editor
The Last Straw journal
GPFS/TLS, PO Box 22706, Lincoln NE 68542-2706 USA
402.483.5135, fax 402.483.5161
thelaststraw@...
www.thelaststraw.org



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Date: 27 Aug 2007 15:56:21 -0500
From: Bruce King ecobruce@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Securing Bales


On Aug 27, 2007, at 1:25 PM, Joyce Coppinger wrote:

> I've heard from a couple of people that some builders are not securing
> the
> bales with interior staking, exterior pinning, stitching, securing
> bales
> with dowels through the box column, not using rebar coming up out of
> the
> foundation or stem wall or footings.


In the EBNet out-of-plane tests (a uniform, steady pressure against the
face of the wall),
we didn't use any of that.  The bales were just stacked, no
compression, and mesh was applied to each face (but not through-tied),
then stapled all around to the frame.

They performed just fine, and did everything you would want.  It's
BETTER to tie the mesh through the wall, especially for large (very
tall or wide) walls and in seismic country, but not otherwise
necessary.  It's generally also better to fasten things together at all
joints rather than not, and the wall is much stiffer with external
pins.  But we were trying to find where "minimum necessary" was, and
found that dowels -- inside or outside -- just aren't necessary.

Bruce King




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Date: 27 Aug 2007 16:25:01 -0500
From: jswearingen@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Securing Bales

We haven't used dowels for years, since a good mesh/plaster skin does the
job as well or better.  We occasionally use rebar pins on the outside when
tying the skins together, but that is only if the wall needs very high
performance.  20D nails driven an inch or so into the plates, with heads
sticking up, at 16" o.co, is much more effective at keeping bales from
slipping that a couple of rebar dowels.

John

On 8/27/07, Joyce Coppinger jc10508@... wrote:
>
> I've heard from a couple of people that some builders are not securing the
> bales with interior staking, exterior pinning, stitching, securing bales
> with dowels through the box column, not using rebar coming up out of the
> foundation or stem wall or footings.
>
> Have you heard anything about this? Do you know why they would discontinue
> this?
>
> What type of pinning or staking or securing method do you use?
>
> Joyce
> -------
> Joyce Coppinger, Managing Editor
> The Last Straw journal
> GPFS/TLS, PO Box 22706, Lincoln NE 68542-2706 USA
> 402.483.5135, fax 402.483.5161
> thelaststraw@...
> www.thelaststraw.org
>

>



- --
John Swearingen
Skillful Means, Inc.
Design and Construction
www.skillful-means.com


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Date: 27 Aug 2007 16:39:06 -0500
From: Laura Bartels laura@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Securing Bales

My experience is the same for most reasonably sized walls. The
attachment of mesh at material transitions & bucks has been adequate in
most cases. The "velcro" pad of nails that John refers to is also what
we use now.

For taller walls, I'd be curious to hear who else uses a mid-height girt
with compression for stiffening and what the construction of the girt
is. I have two projects, one commercial, one public, where we are
looking at this.

That said, when wind loads are high, even smaller walls seem to benefit
from reinforcement (external pinning) during construction even if it is
not called out as needed structurally after plaster.

Laura Bartels



John Swearingen wrote:

>We haven't used dowels for years, since a good mesh/plaster skin does the
>job as well or better.  We occasionally use rebar pins on the outside when
>tying the skins together, but that is only if the wall needs very high
>performance.  20D nails driven an inch or so into the plates, with heads
>sticking up, at 16" o.co, is much more effective at keeping bales from
>slipping that a couple of rebar dowels.
>
>John
>
>On 8/27/07, Joyce Coppinger jc10508@... wrote:
>
>
>>I've heard from a couple of people that some builders are not securing the
>>bales with interior staking, exterior pinning, stitching, securing bales
>>with dowels through the box column, not using rebar coming up out of the
>>foundation or stem wall or footings.
>>
>>Have you heard anything about this? Do you know why they would discontinue
>>this?
>>
>>What type of pinning or staking or securing method do you use?
>>
>>Joyce
>>
>>
>
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Aug 2007 16:54:09 -0500
From: Chris Stafford Stafford@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Securing Bales

Strapping through the foundation and up over the top plate is the
method we use to secure the roof and walls to the ground for wall
compression and to resist wind up-lift forces. Our usual structures
have load bearing straw bale walls. Wire mesh is added for the stucco
providing the seismic reinforcing. It is fastened to the top and bottom
plates after the roof is finished and last strap tightening. No other
interior or exterior pinning and/or staking seems to be necessary.

Chris

Christopher Stafford Architects, Inc.
1044 Water Street, #326
Port Townsend, WA 98368
360.379.8541
www.building-green.net


On Aug 27, 2007, at 1:25 PM, Joyce Coppinger wrote:

> I've heard from a couple of people that some builders are not securing
> the
> bales with interior staking, exterior pinning, stitching, securing
> bales
> with dowels through the box column, not using rebar coming up out of
> the
> foundation or stem wall or footings.
>
> Have you heard anything about this? Do you know why they would
> discontinue
> this?
>
> What type of pinning or staking or securing method do you use?
>
> Joyce
> -------
> Joyce Coppinger, Managing Editor
> The Last Straw journal
> GPFS/TLS, PO Box 22706, Lincoln NE 68542-2706 USA
> 402.483.5135, fax 402.483.5161
> thelaststraw@...
> www.thelaststraw.org
>

>
>






----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Aug 2007 17:11:23 -0500
From: Chris Stafford Stafford@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Securing Bales

Laura,

My 17'6" load bearing test wall for the Saudi project was strapped over
the eighth bale using a ladder style mid plate. Then under this plate
and over the top plate we strapped the remaining 6 bales. Note, we were
building a double wythe 2-string bale wall.

Best wishes,
Chris

Christopher Stafford Architects, Inc.
1044 Water Street, #326
Port Townsend, WA 98368
360.379.8541
www.building-green.net

On Aug 27, 2007, at 2:33 PM, Laura Bartels wrote:

> My experience is the same for most reasonably sized walls. The
> attachment of mesh at material transitions & bucks has been adequate in
> most cases. The "velcro" pad of nails that John refers to is also what
> we use now.
>
> For taller walls, I'd be curious to hear who else uses a mid-height
> girt
> with compression for stiffening and what the construction of the girt
> is. I have two projects, one commercial, one public, where we are
> looking at this.
>
> That said, when wind loads are high, even smaller walls seem to benefit
> from reinforcement (external pinning) during construction even if it is
> not called out as needed structurally after plaster.
>
> Laura Bartels
>
>






----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Aug 2007 17:13:09 -0500
From: dan@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Securing Bales

For taller walls, 12'-20' , we typically use mid height horizontal
box beams or plate stiffeners.  The box beams are 2x4-2x8 with ply on
top, and the lighter plate stiffeners are 1/2" ply with continuous
flat 2x4 of each side. The 2x2 14ga mesh is stapled 2" o.c. here in
seismic country.  We have also created vertical ply fin walls at the
sides of openings for tall walls.

Dan Smith


At 01:33 PM 8/27/2007, you wrote:
>My experience is the same for most reasonably sized walls. The
>attachment of mesh at material transitions & bucks has been adequate in
>most cases. The "velcro" pad of nails that John refers to is also what
>we use now.
>
>For taller walls, I'd be curious to hear who else uses a mid-height girt
>with compression for stiffening and what the construction of the girt
>is. I have two projects, one commercial, one public, where we are
>looking at this.
>
>That said, when wind loads are high, even smaller walls seem to benefit
>from reinforcement (external pinning) during construction even if it is
>not called out as needed structurally after plaster.
>
>Laura Bartels
>
>
>
>John Swearingen wrote:
>
>>We haven't used dowels for years, since a good mesh/plaster skin does the
>>job as well or better.  We occasionally use rebar pins on the outside when
>>tying the skins together, but that is only if the wall needs very high
>>performance.  20D nails driven an inch or so into the plates, with heads
>>sticking up, at 16" o.co, is much more effective at keeping bales from
>>slipping that a couple of rebar dowels.
>>
>>John
>>
>>On 8/27/07, Joyce Coppinger jc10508@... wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I've heard from a couple of people that some builders are not securing the
>>>bales with interior staking, exterior pinning, stitching, securing bales
>>>with dowels through the box column, not using rebar coming up out of the
>>>foundation or stem wall or footings.
>>>
>>>Have you heard anything about this? Do you know why they would discontinue
>>>this?
>>>
>>>What type of pinning or staking or securing method do you use?
>>>
>>>Joyce
>>>
>>
>>
>
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>For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>list, send email to GSBN@...HELP in the
>SUBJECT line.
>----




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