[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

GSBN: Digest for 10/11/07



This message contains a digest of the messages posted to the list today. If
you reply to this message, please be sure to change the subject line to
something meaningful. Also, be careful not to include the entire text of this
message in your reply.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


-> Re: GSBN: Earth plasters
     by markschu@...
-> Cutting the twine
     by markschu@...
-> Re: GSBN:Cutting the twine
     by jswearingen@...
-> Re: GSBN: Earth plasters
     by Graeme North ecodesign@...
-> Re: GSBN: Earth plasters
     by larskeller@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 2007 04:56:54 -0500
From: markschu@...
Subject: Re: GSBN: Earth plasters

Graeme,

Thanks for your submission and insight. The first I'd heard of 'fermenting'
straw (or paper) was from some friends from NZ, Sven and Sarah Johnston,
who hosted a workshop and a guest presenter was Tom Raven, the colorful
Frenchman, who uses a fermented mix, like bakers use a yeast starter for
baking breads. Tom swears by this fermenting and concurs with you on added
durability of the earth plasters. The Johnstons found they had some mold
issues, maybe as a result of this mix tho. Have you experience any issues
with molds? Maybe you'd care to chime in Sven?

Mark Schueneman
Colorado Straw Bale Association
303-444-6027 hm./of.
303-591-9841 cell



> [Original Message]
> From: Graeme North ecodesign@...
> To: GSBN GSBN@...
> Date: 10/10/2007 3:08:32 PM
> Subject: Re: GSBN: Earth plasters
>
> We have found the addition of pulped paper as a fine fibre very very good.
> Its made either from office paper or newspaper #173# it can be made by
throwing
> soaked paper into a concrete mixer with lots of water and just letting it
> roll until completely broken up , then draining off excess water before
use.
> It gives a very fine fibre which is enormously beneficial in terms of
> increasing strength, and durability of earth plasters. If it ferments a
bit
> even better (all ferment seems to help earth plasters #173# using water that
has
> had a bit of straw left in it for a week or two to start to fizz is good
as
> well)  #173# there appears to be some enzymic reaction that takes place
between
> paper or ferment water and clay that helps workability and durability.
>
> Paper pulp eliminates dusting from earth plasters #173# helpful especially
if
> the soil is a bit silty.  It also sticks well #173# we use it over
> pre-compressed straw without meshing.
> We also use it as a finishing plaster over drywall #173# a very nice finish
and
> it sticks like ...glue.
>
> It is also very effective as an additive to earth bricks as well #173#
increases
> robustness, durability, and also lowers density giving better insulation.
>
> The amount of paper pulp that can be added can be quite high  - we often
use
> up to around 30% or so by volume to plaster , and have made mud bricks
with
> up to 50% paper pulp #173# cardboard houses anyone?
> I am currently looking at building with cob and mud brick mixes using
> roughly 2 parts clay-soil, 2 parts wood shavings (long fibered rippings)
or
> straw, and 1 part paper pulp #173# very tough, very light, easy to work, and
> looking promising.  Very good insulation, and very nice to use as gravity
> increases #173# remember that there is plenty of evidence that gravity
doubles
> in strength very thirty years.
>
> As to lime over earth #173# I#185#ve found it works well so far IF there is
good
> keying and wetting #173# if the initial earth is a cob type mix with lots of
> (straw) fibre with plenty of fibres left hanging out of a rough surface,
> then that is good too for tying the layers together.
>
> I#185#ve just lost a patch off a bit of a small experimental earth plastered
and
> whitewashed straw wall where the earth plasters layers were not keyed well
> together. Keying is good.
>
> Best
>
>
> Graeme,
> Graeme North Architects,
> 49 Matthew Road,
> RD1, Warkworth,
> New Zealand 0981
> Ph/fax +64 (0)9  4259305
>
> ecodesign@...
> www.ecodesign.co.nz
>
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---

>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 2007 05:20:38 -0500
From: markschu@...
Subject: Cutting the twine

Greetings All,

Has anyone ever built a wall with bales flat, then cut the twine on the bales,
to relax the indentations caused by a tight bale? Seems the tighter the bale,
the deeper the indentation and the more the need for chainsawing or rasping
the ends flat for a good 'butt' joint. Speaking with a local bale builder
friend I suggested cutting the twine and he thought it would be a bad idea,
thinking that it would take away the 'stacking brick' strength. My bales are
in on my project now. The bales were tight and we used hydraulic jacks and
sheets of metal to wedge the top bales in place. The wall is extremely tight.
Now that a slip coat is in place, and well worked into the flat bales, why not
cut the twine, relax the bales to fill in any unstuffed or cobbed spaces
within the wall. May be we could have cut the twine after straightening the
wall and prior to filling and cobbing the voids. It may have eliminated some
of that work and given a more uniform fit.

Has anyone ever tried it or foresee any problems? Of coarse if your bales are
on edge this may not be an option or you may have to come up with a system
like what Tom Raven demonstrated at the last International Conference, using a
wooden 'frame like' system.


Mark Schueneman
Colorado Straw Bale Association
303-444-6027 hm./of.
303-591-9841 cell

- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
- ---


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 2007 11:24:45 -0500
From: jswearingen@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Cutting the twine

I think it's a good idea, and have done it experimentally. My idea is to
leave the end bales tied and pop strings on everything in between before the
next course goes up.  This would eliminate, and do a better job, than
stuffing between bales.  A little tricky to do during crazy baleraisings,
but our next job we'll be doing all the bales ourselves, so we'll try it
out.

John "String Pop" Swearingen

On 10/11/07, Mark Schueneman markschu@... wrote:
>
> Greetings All,
>
> Has anyone ever built a wall with bales flat, then cut the twine on the
> bales, to relax the indentations caused by a tight bale? Seems the tighter
> the bale, the deeper the indentation and the more the need for chainsawing
> or rasping the ends flat for a good 'butt' joint. Speaking with a local bale
> builder friend I suggested cutting the twine and he thought it would be a
> bad idea, thinking that it would take away the 'stacking brick' strength. My
> bales are in on my project now. The bales were tight and we used hydraulic
> jacks and sheets of metal to wedge the top bales in place. The wall is
> extremely tight. Now that a slip coat is in place, and well worked into the
> flat bales, why not cut the twine, relax the bales to fill in any unstuffed
> or cobbed spaces within the wall. May be we could have cut the twine after
> straightening the wall and prior to filling and cobbing the voids. It may
> have eliminated some of that work and given a more uniform fit.
>
> Has anyone ever tried it or foresee any problems? Of coarse if your bales
> are on edge this may not be an option or you may have to come up with a
> system like what Tom Raven demonstrated at the last International
> Conference, using a wooden 'frame like' system.
>
>
> Mark Schueneman
> Colorado Straw Bale Association
> 303-444-6027 hm./of.
> 303-591-9841 cell
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---

>



- --
John Swearingen
Skillful Means, Inc.
Design and Construction
www.skillful-means.com


- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
- ---


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 2007 16:44:03 -0500
From: Graeme North ecodesign@...
Subject: Re: GSBN: Earth plasters

> Hi Mark - I1ve not found mould on earth plasters to be a problem - I have
seen
> darker surface 3patches2 on fermented earthen material eg mud bricks or cob
> where the  mix had sat for a while (weeks) before using and had fermented a
> bit, but I do not think these darker patches that arise from this are mould.
> Mould may occur if the walls are very slow to dry and/or are not fully dry
> beneath earth plasters, or else the building does not have sufficient eaves
> and moisture keeps the wall wet.
> I1ve got earthen plasters (with paper pulp) in my own bathroom where they
get
> really steamy at times, (from showering) which not only dry out really
> quickly, but also suck moisture out of towels and wet floors keeping the
room
> really dry - there is no mould after three or more years of this, even
though
> we live in a wet and humid climate - virtually never less than 60%, often
well
> over 80% - 90%. 
> 
> cheers
> 
> Graeme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graeme,
> 
> Thanks for your submission and insight. The first I'd heard of 'fermenting'
> straw (or paper) was from some friends from NZ, Sven and Sarah Johnston,
> who hosted a workshop and a guest presenter was Tom Raven, the colorful
> Frenchman, who uses a fermented mix, like bakers use a yeast starter for
> baking breads. Tom swears by this fermenting and concurs with you on added
> durability of the earth plasters. The Johnstons found they had some mold
> issues, maybe as a result of this mix tho. Have you experience any issues
> with molds?




- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
- ---


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 2007 16:59:37 -0500
From: larskeller@...
Subject: Re: GSBN: Earth plasters

Paper pulp has been a stable fibre addition to earthen plasters on many
earthen plastered sb-constructions in Denmark the last 5 years.
First it came about by listening to recommendations from ceramists
applauding the reinforced clay.
So when starting to use spraying machines that got clogged up by chopped up
straw and the like paper pulp seemed to be the solution, and it was.
Now we also use it when we plaster by hand, and for example in the
claymortars used to some parts of building Finnish Mass Ovens (Masonry Ovens
in the USofA).

Lars


2007/10/11, Graeme North ecodesign@...:
>
> We have found the addition of pulped paper as a fine fibre very very good.
> Its made either from office paper or newspaper - it can be made by
> throwing
> soaked paper into a concrete mixer with lots of water and just letting it
> roll until completely broken up , then draining off excess water before
> use.
> It gives a very fine fibre which is enormously beneficial in terms of
> increasing strength, and durability of earth plasters. If it ferments a
> bit
> even better (all ferment seems to help earth plasters - using water that
> has
> had a bit of straw left in it for a week or two to start to fizz is good
> as
> well)  - there appears to be some enzymic reaction that takes place
> between
> paper or ferment water and clay that helps workability and durability.
>
> Paper pulp eliminates dusting from earth plasters - helpful especially if
> the soil is a bit silty.  It also sticks well - we use it over
> pre-compressed straw without meshing.
> We also use it as a finishing plaster over drywall - a very nice finish
> and
> it sticks like ...glue.
>
> It is also very effective as an additive to earth bricks as well -
> increases
> robustness, durability, and also lowers density giving better insulation.
>
> The amount of paper pulp that can be added can be quite high  - we often
> use
> up to around 30% or so by volume to plaster , and have made mud bricks
> with
> up to 50% paper pulp - cardboard houses anyone?
> I am currently looking at building with cob and mud brick mixes using
> roughly 2 parts clay-soil, 2 parts wood shavings (long fibered rippings)
> or
> straw, and 1 part paper pulp - very tough, very light, easy to work, and
> looking promising.  Very good insulation, and very nice to use as gravity
> increases - remember that there is plenty of evidence that gravity doubles
> in strength very thirty years.
>
> As to lime over earth - I1ve found it works well so far IF there is good
> keying and wetting - if the initial earth is a cob type mix with lots of
> (straw) fibre with plenty of fibres left hanging out of a rough surface,
> then that is good too for tying the layers together.
>
> I1ve just lost a patch off a bit of a small experimental earth plastered
> and
> whitewashed straw wall where the earth plasters layers were not keyed well
> together. Keying is good.
>
> Best
>
>
> Graeme,
> Graeme North Architects,
> 49 Matthew Road,
> RD1, Warkworth,
> New Zealand 0981
> Ph/fax +64 (0)9  4259305
>
> ecodesign@...
> www.ecodesign.co.nz
>
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---

>
>


- -- 
jomorandin@...
larskeller@...

<a  target="_blank" href="http://www.dr.dk/DR2/Friland/Familierne/Jo+og+Lars/";>http://www.dr.dk/DR2/Friland/Familierne/Jo+og+Lars/</a>

+45 8668 0505

mobiler
Lars +45 2024 0505
Jo +45 2390 0924

Jo Morandin, Asger &amp; Lars Keller
Friland 12 B
8410 Ronde
Danmark
- --


- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
- ---


----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of Digest

To request a copy of the help file, reply to this message and put "help" in
the subject.