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GSBN: Digest for 12/13/07



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---------------------------------------------------------------------


-> Re: GSBN:Fwd: CASBA_ Pea Gravel
     by "Brian Hodge" brian@...
-> Re: GSBN:Fwd: CASBA_ Pea Gravel
     by jswearingen@...
-> Re: GSBN:Fwd: CASBA_ Pea Gravel
     by Sarah Johnston sarahjohnston@...
-> David Arkin nomination
     by Martin Hammer mfhammer@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by Mark Piepkorn mark@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by jeff@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by David Eisenberg strawnet@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by Bruce King ecobruce@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by jswearingen@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by Tom Hahn tomhahn@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by Joy Bennett mbenn1035@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by Dan Smith dan@...
-> Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination
     by billc billc_lists@...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 02:29:40 -0500
From: "Brian Hodge" brian@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Fwd: CASBA_ Pea Gravel

Hi David & Anni,
I agree with you. If there is water in the bales to the point that drainage
at the bottom is required, I would recommend their removal. For 5 years we
have been using a 90mm deep bottom boxing with the cavity filled with Bulk
insulation to avoid a thermal bridge. The top of the bottom boxing is then
covered with structural ply.
The main reason that we have the 90 mm (4") bottom boxing is in the case of
an internal spill such as a washing machine or bath overflow. We use a 19mm
polyester strap with 1,100 kg breaking strain to compress the bales. This
strapping is fitted under the bottom boxing, so the bottom boxing also helps
with compression.

In the instance of a washing machine overflow, I doubt that 1" of gravel
would be sufficient to  prevent the water traveling into the bottom of the
bale.

Regards

Brian Hodge
Anvil Straw
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Wanek" cat@...
To: GSBN@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: GSBN:Fwd: CASBA_ Pea Gravel


I am forwarding this inquiry from the California
Straw Building Association (CASBA) list from
award-winning architects David Arkin & Anni
Tilt.   Perhaps this will stimulate discussion on the GSBN e-waves.
- -Cat


>From: "David Arkin, AIA" david@...
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:21:39 -0800
>Subject: CASBA_Mem Pea Gravel
>Fellow CASBAnauts (CASBAnuts?):
>
>We haven't used pea gravel between our sill plates for some time now, using
>rigid insulation instead.  My opinion is that if a bale wall has enough
>water in it to need 'drainage' (from any source), those bales are goners.
>
>The building official in Sonoma is citing it's recommendation in SB332 as a
>good enough reason to require that it be there.  SB332 says, "There shall
>also be a drainage plane between the straw and the top of the foundation,
>such as a one inch layer of pea gravel."  Does anyone know of the intent of
>this?
>
>More importantly, does anyone know of any testing as to why this might (or
>might not) be a good idea?
>
>Your thoughts (and/or Holiday Greetings) always appreciated,
>
>David and Anni
>
>*  *  *  *  *
>Arkin Tilt Architects
>Ecological Planning & Design
>
>David Arkin, AIA, Architect
>LEED Accredited Professional
>CA #C22459/NV #5030
>
>1101 8th St. #180, Berkeley, CA  94710
>510/528-9830
>www.arkintilt.com
>
>"There is no way to peace. Peace is the way."
>- A. J. Muste
>
>
>
>-
>Use REPLY to respond to the sender only or
>use REPLY ALL to respond to the entire list.
>CASBA Website can be found at <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawbuilding.org";>http://www.strawbuilding.org</a>

- ----
For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
- ----




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 09:58:08 -0500
From: jswearingen@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Fwd: CASBA_ Pea Gravel

<In the instance of a washing machine overflow, I doubt that 1" of gravel
would be sufficient to  prevent the water traveling into the bottom of the
bale.>

We also use plates that are about 3.5", so the gravel layer would be at 2.5"
and the BB's (bale bottoms) would be at 3.5".  That seems sufficient to
handle most overflow situations.

One alternative, if interior flooding is a big concern, would be to break
the insulation every foot or two with a 2" channel of gravel perpendicular
to the length of the wall.  These could even lead to a rainwater collection
tank so that you can recycle your overflowing water.

One translation question....what's "Bulk insulation"

John "What are those suds on the Floor?" Swearingen



On Dec 13, 2007 12:18 AM, Brian Hodge brian@... wrote:

> Hi David &amp; Anni,
> I agree with you. If there is water in the bales to the point that
> drainage
> at the bottom is required, I would recommend their removal. For 5 years we
> have been using a 90mm deep bottom boxing with the cavity filled with Bulk
> insulation to avoid a thermal bridge. The top of the bottom boxing is then
> covered with structural ply.
> The main reason that we have the 90 mm (4") bottom boxing is in the case
> of
> an internal spill such as a washing machine or bath overflow. We use a
> 19mm
> polyester strap with 1,100 kg breaking strain to compress the bales. This
> strapping is fitted under the bottom boxing, so the bottom boxing also
> helps
> with compression.
>
> In the instance of a washing machine overflow, I doubt that 1" of gravel
> would be sufficient to  prevent the water traveling into the bottom of the
> bale.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian Hodge
> Anvil Straw
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Catherine Wanek" cat@...
> To: GSBN@...
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:18 PM
> Subject: GSBN:Fwd: CASBA_ Pea Gravel
>
>
> I am forwarding this inquiry from the California
> Straw Building Association (CASBA) list from
> award-winning architects David Arkin &amp; Anni
> Tilt.   Perhaps this will stimulate discussion on the GSBN e-waves.
> -Cat
>
>
> >From: "David Arkin, AIA" david@...
> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:21:39 -0800
> >Subject: CASBA_Mem Pea Gravel
> >Fellow CASBAnauts (CASBAnuts?):
> >
> >We haven't used pea gravel between our sill plates for some time now,
> using
> >rigid insulation instead.  My opinion is that if a bale wall has enough
> >water in it to need 'drainage' (from any source), those bales are goners.
> >
> >The building official in Sonoma is citing it's recommendation in SB332 as
> a
> >good enough reason to require that it be there.  SB332 says, "There shall
> >also be a drainage plane between the straw and the top of the foundation,
> >such as a one inch layer of pea gravel."  Does anyone know of the intent
> of
> >this?
> >
> >More importantly, does anyone know of any testing as to why this might
> (or
> >might not) be a good idea?
> >
> >Your thoughts (and/or Holiday Greetings) always appreciated,
> >
> >David and Anni
> >
> >*  *  *  *  *
> >Arkin Tilt Architects
> >Ecological Planning &amp; Design
> >
> >David Arkin, AIA, Architect
> >LEED Accredited Professional
> >CA #C22459/NV #5030
> >
> >1101 8th St. #180, Berkeley, CA  94710
> >510/528-9830
> >www.arkintilt.com
> >
> >"There is no way to peace. Peace is the way."
> >- A. J. Muste
> >
> >
> >
> >-
> >Use REPLY to respond to the sender only or
> >use REPLY ALL to respond to the entire list.
> >CASBA Website can be found at <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawbuilding.org";>http://www.strawbuilding.org</a>
>
> ----
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
> send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>
>

>
>


- --
John Swearingen
Skillful Means, Inc.
Design and Construction
www.skillful-means.com


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Date: 13 Dec 2007 13:31:51 -0500
From: Sarah Johnston sarahjohnston@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:Fwd: CASBA_ Pea Gravel

We have seen a bale wall become wet enough to drain through gravel
and the wall dry out over time  (the building had a roof which
allowed water to drain into the top of the wall, NOT A GOOD LOOK).
So long as there is a way for water to escape to the exterior,
gravel may not be the only answer.  In my opinion so long as the
lowest point in the wall will let water out there is a chance the
wall will survive.  If water can move down the side of the insulation
and under the bottom plate the wall may dry out.  I do agree, as a
rule, if the wall becomes wet enough to 'drain' the bales should be
replaced.

As far as an internal flood is concerned....  One way to reassure the
building inspector that the insulation is fine in place of the gravel
is to explain the purpose.  I am sure they understand that if water
builds up it would make sense to allow the water to drain away
instead of being trapped and creating a 'pond'.  Therefore, design a
floor drain to be the lowest place in the house.  Water will not
build up above your bottom plate before it finds it's way down a
drain.  We like to make the shower that drain....   They might
appreciate that keeping water out from under the bale is better than
creating a way for water to get into that spot which is not going to
dry easily.  We go as far as sealing the join between the bottom
plate and the foundation on the interior so that water is directed
away from the bale wall entirely.

Good luck, Sven Johnston


>>> ?):
>>>
>>> We haven't used pea gravel between our sill plates for some time
>>> now,
>> using
>>> rigid insulation instead.  My opinion is that if a bale wall has
>>> enough
>>> water in it to need 'drainage' (from any source), those bales are
>>> goners.
>>>
>>> The building official in Sonoma is citing it's recommendation in
>>> SB332 as
>> a
>>> good enough reason to require that it be there.  SB332 says,
>>> "There shall
>>> also be a drainage plane between the straw and the top of the
>>> foundation,
>>> such as a one inch layer of pea gravel."  Does anyone know of the
>>> intent
>> of
>>> this?
>>>
>>> More importantly, does anyone know of any testing as to why this
>>> might
>> (or
>>> might not) be a good idea?
>>>
>>> Your thoughts (and/or Holiday Greetings) always appreciated,
>>>
>>> David and Anni
>>>
>>> *  *  *  *  *
>>> Arkin Tilt Architects
>>> Ecological Planning &amp; Design
>>>
>>> David Arkin, AIA, Architect
>>> LEED Accredited Professional
>>> CA #C22459/NV #5030
>>>
>>> 1101 8th St. #180, Berkeley, CA  94710
>>> 510/528-9830
>>> www.arkintilt.com
>>>
>>> "There is no way to peace. Peace is the way."
>>> - A. J. Muste
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Use REPLY to respond to the sender only or
>>> use REPLY ALL to respond to the entire list.
>>> CASBA Website can be found at <a  target="_blank" href="http://www.strawbuilding.org";>http://www.strawbuilding.org</a>
>>
>> ----
>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>> list,
>> send
>> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
>> ----
>>
>>
>> ----
>> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN
>> list,
>> send email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT
>> line.
>> ----
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Swearingen
> Skillful Means, Inc.
> Design and Construction
> www.skillful-means.com
>
>
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Sarah Johnston
50A Connolly Street
Geraldine New Zealand
03 693 7369
sarahjohnston@...





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Date: 13 Dec 2007 17:16:04 -0500
From: Martin Hammer mfhammer@...
Subject: David Arkin nomination

Hello again everyone -

David Arkin's e-mail about pea gravel ignited one of those great GSBN
firestorms of intense and productive dialogue.

I'll take this opportunity to nominate David (along with his wife Anni) to
the GSBN.  I think his absence is a longstanding oversight.

David is an architect in Berkeley, California who has a long history
designing buildings with an environmental focus that are also of exceptional
quality as architecture.  He worked a number of years for educator and
architect Sim Van der Ryn, a pioneer in the field of ecological design.
David was project architect for the Real Goods Solar Living Center that
graces the cover of Bruce King's book and was the building that got Bruce
into straw bale.  He has broad experience with straw bale, rammed earth, all
things solar, and other forms of natural and environmentally responsible
building.  In partnership with his equally talented architect wife Anni
Tilt, their firm Arkin-Tilt Architects (www.arkintilt.com) has won numerous
design awards and their work has been widely published.  David is also past
national president of Architects, Designers and Planners for Social
Responsibility.

Any seconds?

Martin Hammer




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 18:04:08 -0500
From: Mark Piepkorn mark@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

At 06:04 PM 12/13/2007, Martin Hammer wrote:
>Any seconds?

yes




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 18:06:36 -0500
From: jeff@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

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Date: 13 Dec 2007 18:21:01 -0500
From: David Eisenberg strawnet@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

At the risk of making the GSBN a bit more US-centric and with apologies
for doing so, I gladly second Martin's nomination. David and Anni have
been at this for a long time doing great work in all the ways that
Martin noted.

David Eisenberg


- -----Original Message-----
From: Martin Hammer mfhammer@...
To: GSBN GSBN@...
Sent: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 4:04 pm
Subject: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

Hello again everyone -

David Arkin's e-mail about pea gravel ignited one of those great GSBN
firestorms of intense and productive dialogue.

I'll take this opportunity to nominate David (along with his wife Anni)
to
the GSBN.  I think his absence is a longstanding oversight.

David is an architect in Berkeley, California who has a long history
designing buildings with an environmental focus that are also of
exceptional
quality as architecture.  He worked a number of years for educator and
architect Sim Van der Ryn, a pioneer in the field of ecological design.
David was project architect for the Real Goods Solar Living Center that
graces the cover of Bruce King's book and was the building that got
Bruce
into straw bale.  He has broad experience with straw bale, rammed
earth, all
things solar, and other forms of natural and environmentally responsible
building.  In partnership with his equally talented architect wife Anni
Tilt, their firm Arkin-Tilt Architects (www.arkintilt.com) has won
numerous
design awards and their work has been widely published.  David is also
past
national president of Architects, Designers and Planners for Social
Responsibility.

Any seconds?

Martin Hammer


- ----
For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list,
send
email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
- ----







________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 18:39:08 -0500
From: Bruce King ecobruce@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

AYE!

Thanks,

Bruce King, PE
Director, Ecological Building Network  ( www.ecobuildnetwork.org )
Publisher, Green Building Press  ( www.greenbuildingpress.com )
11 Mark Drive
San Rafael, CA 94903  USA
(415) 987-7271
bruce@...

On Dec 13, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Martin Hammer wrote:

> Hello again everyone -
>
> David Arkin's e-mail about pea gravel ignited one of those great GSBN
> firestorms of intense and productive dialogue.
>
> I'll take this opportunity to nominate David (along with his wife
> Anni) to
> the GSBN.  I think his absence is a longstanding oversight.
>
> David is an architect in Berkeley, California who has a long history
> designing buildings with an environmental focus that are also of
> exceptional
> quality as architecture.  He worked a number of years for educator and
> architect Sim Van der Ryn, a pioneer in the field of ecological
> design.
> David was project architect for the Real Goods Solar Living Center
> that
> graces the cover of Bruce King's book and was the building that got
> Bruce
> into straw bale.  He has broad experience with straw bale, rammed
> earth, all
> things solar, and other forms of natural and environmentally
> responsible
> building.  In partnership with his equally talented architect wife
> Anni
> Tilt, their firm Arkin-Tilt Architects (www.arkintilt.com) has won
> numerous
> design awards and their work has been widely published.  David is
> also past
> national president of Architects, Designers and Planners for Social
> Responsibility.
>
> Any seconds?
>
> Martin Hammer
>
>

>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 18:40:35 -0500
From: jswearingen@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

geeze, i thought he already was...

john

On Dec 13, 2007 3:04 PM, Martin Hammer mfhammer@... wrote:

> Hello again everyone -
>
> David Arkin's e-mail about pea gravel ignited one of those great GSBN
> firestorms of intense and productive dialogue.
>
> I'll take this opportunity to nominate David (along with his wife Anni) to
> the GSBN.  I think his absence is a longstanding oversight.
>
> David is an architect in Berkeley, California who has a long history
> designing buildings with an environmental focus that are also of
> exceptional
> quality as architecture.  He worked a number of years for educator and
> architect Sim Van der Ryn, a pioneer in the field of ecological design.
> David was project architect for the Real Goods Solar Living Center that
> graces the cover of Bruce King's book and was the building that got Bruce
> into straw bale.  He has broad experience with straw bale, rammed earth,
> all
> things solar, and other forms of natural and environmentally responsible
> building.  In partnership with his equally talented architect wife Anni
> Tilt, their firm Arkin-Tilt Architects (www.arkintilt.com) has won
> numerous
> design awards and their work has been widely published.  David is also
> past
> national president of Architects, Designers and Planners for Social
> Responsibility.
>
> Any seconds?
>
> Martin Hammer
>
>

>
>


- --
John Swearingen
Skillful Means, Inc.
Design and Construction
www.skillful-means.com


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 19:23:45 -0500
From: Tom Hahn tomhahn@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

>
>Any seconds?
>
>Martin Hammer


Absolutely...

Tom Hahn


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 20:38:56 -0500
From: Joyce Coppinger jc10508@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

Definitely second that one.

Joyce

on 12.13.2007 5:04 PM, Martin Hammer at mfhammer@...:

> Hello again everyone -
>
> David Arkin's e-mail about pea gravel ignited one of those great GSBN
> firestorms of intense and productive dialogue.
>
> I'll take this opportunity to nominate David (along with his wife Anni) to
> the GSBN.  I think his absence is a longstanding oversight.
>
> David is an architect in Berkeley, California who has a long history
> designing buildings with an environmental focus that are also of exceptional
> quality as architecture.  He worked a number of years for educator and
> architect Sim Van der Ryn, a pioneer in the field of ecological design.
> David was project architect for the Real Goods Solar Living Center that
> graces the cover of Bruce King's book and was the building that got Bruce
> into straw bale.  He has broad experience with straw bale, rammed earth, all
> things solar, and other forms of natural and environmentally responsible
> building.  In partnership with his equally talented architect wife Anni
> Tilt, their firm Arkin-Tilt Architects (www.arkintilt.com) has won numerous
> design awards and their work has been widely published.  David is also past
> national president of Architects, Designers and Planners for Social
> Responsibility.
>
> Any seconds?
>
> Martin Hammer
>
>
> ----
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the GSBN list, send
> email to GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT line.
> ----
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 20:53:44 -0500
From: Joy Bennett mbenn1035@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

It's a shame it's taken so long -a RESOUNDING YES!!!!!

Maurice


- --- Bruce King ecobruce@... wrote:

> AYE!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce King, PE
> Director, Ecological Building Network  (
> www.ecobuildnetwork.org )
> Publisher, Green Building Press  (
> www.greenbuildingpress.com )
> 11 Mark Drive
> San Rafael, CA 94903  USA
> (415) 987-7271
> bruce@...
>
> On Dec 13, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Martin Hammer wrote:
>
> > Hello again everyone -
> >
> > David Arkin's e-mail about pea gravel ignited one
> of those great GSBN
> > firestorms of intense and productive dialogue.
> >
> > I'll take this opportunity to nominate David
> (along with his wife
> > Anni) to
> > the GSBN.  I think his absence is a longstanding
> oversight.
> >
> > David is an architect in Berkeley, California who
> has a long history
> > designing buildings with an environmental focus
> that are also of
> > exceptional
> > quality as architecture.  He worked a number of
> years for educator and
> > architect Sim Van der Ryn, a pioneer in the field
> of ecological
> > design.
> > David was project architect for the Real Goods
> Solar Living Center
> > that
> > graces the cover of Bruce King's book and was the
> building that got
> > Bruce
> > into straw bale.  He has broad experience with
> straw bale, rammed
> > earth, all
> > things solar, and other forms of natural and
> environmentally
> > responsible
> > building.  In partnership with his equally
> talented architect wife
> > Anni
> > Tilt, their firm Arkin-Tilt Architects
> (www.arkintilt.com) has won
> > numerous
> > design awards and their work has been widely
> published.  David is
> > also past
> > national president of Architects, Designers and
> Planners for Social
> > Responsibility.
> >
> > Any seconds?
> >
> > Martin Hammer
> >
> >
> > ----
> > For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise
> using the GSBN
> > list, send email to GSBN@...
> with HELP in the
> > SUBJECT line.
> > ----
> >
>
> ----
> For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise
> using the GSBN list, send email to
> GSBN@...HELP in the SUBJECT
> line.
> ----
>
>


Maurice and Joy Bennett


You must be the change you want to see in the world.   Gandhi


     
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 21:42:53 -0500
From: Dan Smith dan@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination




>>
>> Any seconds?
>>
>> Martin Hammer
>
Yes, they are an obvious choice...

Dan Smith

>
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Dec 2007 22:29:39 -0500
From: billc billc_lists@...
Subject: Re: GSBN:David Arkin nomination

Ok, Ok already!  Enough seconds!  I'll invite them!


>>>Any seconds?
>>>


- --
Bill Christensen
<<a  target="_blank" href="http://sustainablesources.com/contact/";>http://sustainablesources.com/contact/</a>>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://directory.sustainablesources.com";>http://directory.sustainablesources.com</a>>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/";>http://SustainableSources.com/calendar/</a>>
Green Real Estate: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/";>http://SustainableSources.com/realestate/</a>>
Straw Bale Registry: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/";>http://sbregistry.sustainablesources.com/</a>>
Books/videos/software: <<a  target="_blank" href="http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/";>http://bookstore.sustainablesources.com/</a>>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

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