[GSBN] URGENT! Drying moisture out of SB walls
Paula Baker-Laporte FAIA
paula at econest.com
Thu Apr 6 19:21:53 CDT 2017
We have used Keim liquid silicate coatings over earth plasters in an area
that was very susceptable to erosion from driving rain and had great
success with it. They make many different products and do a lot of
restorations with it in Europe and so I imagine they have a solution to use
over lime. Coatings are clear or pigmented. They can also do very exact
color matching if a sample is sent to them.
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 2:19 PM, John Straube <jfstraube at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
> Interesting case because it looks like they did almost everything
> correctly. I am sorry to hear of their bad luck. The photo is quite
> telling, but I do wonder how the rain is getting in at that angle (other
> than stupidly high levels of wind)
> I agree with you Dave that the numbers are not “run for the hills” but
> they are worrisome.
> Definitely worth checking for any of the obvious bulk water flaws and
> being more careful and complete in your MC measurements.
> I can be certain of one thing … there is definitely an amount of rain that
> will over whelm the lime plaster, and cause wetting of the straw. That
> amount depends on the drying potential of the climate and the lime plaster
> thickness and properties. Nothing magic about lime, it is just better than
> cement, and much better than unite.
> It is expensive and invasive to dry the wall by drilling holes and
> blowing dry air. The hard part is the machine with dry air (desiccant
> driers are available from flood restoration companies). One could simply
> blow heater air into holes… easier, still annoying.
> I would consider hanging a dark coloured (to collect solar heat) tarp or
> geotextile from the overhang edge/gutter to the grade to act as a highly
> ventilated (critical), rain screen. This will stop further wetting and
> along drying.
> Also, adding heat to the inside will be helpful: increases the interior
> temperature where wetness is evident by even 5 degrees will help, although
> a steady and spatially uniform 10 or more will really make a difference in
> a matter of weeks. I know people who have used arrays of heat lamps, plug
> in electric heaters with the door closed, and stoked up wood stoves to
> drive moisture out of walls.
> If the MC can get below 20% or so, then I think you have a lot of time to
> design an upgrade… almost all coatings have limits and are not as good as a
> real over clad. Xypex is a pore blocker (hence reduces vapor permeance)
> that reacts with alkalinity to form calcium silicates. Could work well
> with fresh lime, but probably wont work well with the exterior carbonated
> surface of the lime. I would be quite skeptical of most coatings… products
> like Silanes certainly work and can make a pretty big difference, we just
> dont know if they make enough of a difference.
> If acceptable, it is pretty cheap and simple to install horizontal 1x4’s
> with 45 degree sawn top edges over the lime plaster at, say 36” on centre
> or so, then add vertical boards with generous joints. Or add vertical 1x4
> and clapboard siding (much more effective at rain shedding). This will
> reduce the wetting by a factor of 10 or more, and only slow drying by a bit
> (if well ventilated) so a pretty massive improvement and certain to solve
> driving rain problems (if that is what this is).
> Planting a hedge and some trees a dozen yards upwind would also be a good
> More good pictures like that one sent would possibly help provide more
> > On Apr 5, 2017, at 7:42 PM, David Arkin, AIA <david at arkintilt.com>
> > Hello Global Balers:
> > A CASBA member poses the questions outlined in the situation below.
> I’ve attached my responses below the query and photo, and invite any of you
> to weigh in with further recommendations, follow-up questions or anecdotes
> that may be useful.
> > Best,
> > David Arkin, AIA, Director
> > California Straw Building Association
> > ps: Joins us for CASBA’s 2017 Spring Conference, May 5-7 in the San
> Francisco Bay Area, featuring architect Craig White of the U.K.: "Towards
> a Photosynthetic Architecture - Renewable Buildings for the Circular Carbon
> Economy”. Registration is open: http://www.strawbuilding.org/
> > * * * * *
> > I’m hoping you can address some of my questions or direct me to anyone
> with experience dealing with this problem, or anyone who has any insights
> into causes and solutions.
> > I was contacted this morning by a client just south of Portland who has
> measured high levels of moisture in their straw bale walls, and is asking
> for advice on how to deal with the problem.
> > The core questions I have are these:
> > 1. Assuming there isn’t a bulk water leak from the roof,
> downspout, or window, can wind-driven rain account for high levels of
> moisture in a straw bale wall assembly? In other words, what does it take
> for a properly installed lime plaster to be overwhelmed by wind-driven rain?
> > 2. What are the options for drying the wall out? Waiting for dry
> weather (summer!) may not be an option as wet straw bales may not survive
> that long.
> > 3. Once the wall is dried out, assuming there isn’t significant
> permanent damage to the bales, what surface treatments are available that
> would prevent liquid moisture from soaking into the walls, yet keep them
> vapor permeable. I can imagine several landscaping and rain screen
> (siding) solutions, but am not familiar with surface treatments.
> > Background Information.
> > Details about the wall assembly. The SB walls are on a raised floor.
> The space between the sill plates was filled with rock wool insulation and
> capped with ½” plywood to handle the bale weight. The wall assembly has
> 2-string rice straw bales laid flat, and is part of the building’s shear
> wall system, using 17 gauge lath and lime plaster (exterior and interior).
> Instead of applying a finish coat of lime plaster the client chose to
> apply a lime based paint from BioShield. I didn’t plaster the structure
> or apply the lime paint, but believe it was done by capable professionals
> in accordance with best practices. The bales were stack in April-May of
> 2016. Bale wall moisture readings just prior to plastering averaged
> 14.1%. The wall was prepped to receive a lime plaster—2-layer building
> paper stapled to all wood framing, shingled to shed water, etc. The
> windows have sills, the 4’ roof overhangs are guttered and the downspout
> installed properly. The walls were plastered during late spring and early
> summer. Three coats of exterior lime paint were applied in late
> summer-early fall. When I visited in November, I saw vertical cracks at
> the corners only (where I always see them, regardless of how much
> corner-aid or exp. metal lath is underneath!).
> > Building site. The house is located in an open field and has no
> barriers to wind driven rain. The general contractor, who happens to
> live next-door, told me the field is like a wind tunnel. He reported that
> since it began raining in the fall of 2016 he hasn’t seen the walls look
> dry more than a dozen times.
> > The problem first came to my attention about a month ago when the client
> told me they smelled something awful in one of their rooms—the one with the
> most weather exposure (S. W. corner of building, labeled “office” on the
> plans). I haven’t visited the site, but advised them to first investigate
> and rule out all the other likely possible causes for an odor (e.g.
> decomposing straw piled near the house, something else rotting in the crawl
> space, etc.), and if the odor persisted, to gather quantifiable
> information, including using a moisture meter probed into the wall near
> outlets, which they have now done, (see below).
> > <image001.png>
> > <image002.png>
> > The office is in the S. W. corner of the structure. I’m not familiar
> with the probe they used, but it’s likely that the shaft is about 18” long,
> and if used as described to me, “poked in a 45 degree angle from the
> interior of the wall near the outlets”, probably penetrated about 5” into
> the wall when it reads 8”, and about 12” into the wall where the chart says
> “full in.” From all the points they gathered data, moisture readings were
> higher towards the exterior of the wall.
> > My understanding is that lime plasters will absorb and then release
> liquid moisture from wind driven rain, and are quite able to handle
> regular, frequent wettings without compromising the straw beneath. If
> bulk water isn’t entering the wall through a breach in the flashing or
> another leak of some kind, is it possible that an unusually wet winter (I
> believe the Willamette Valley is experiencing a well-above average rainfall
> year like much of the west coast) could create the moisture levels seen
> below? Is it possible that the water is soaking in, and just keeps
> soaking in, unable to dry out because of the constant rains?
> > <wind driven rain on lime plastered SB wall, S exposure..jpg>
> > * * * * *
> > [Arkin comments in reply]
> > The moisture readings aren’t as high as I would’ve guessed based on your
> description … that’s perhaps good news. We had a wall at the Real Goods
> Solar Living Center that was an exterior site wall with very little
> overhang, and it would get pounded by the rain. We had a moisture reading
> over 50%! However, in Hopland’s sunny hot climate it dried out between
> rains and now with a new broad overhang it is doing fine, 20+ years later.
> Similarly a small outbuilding on that same site was flooded to the middle
> of the second level of bales. It was earth plastered and we advised to
> simply let it be and see what happens. The building has no windows or
> doors (it’s a ‘welcome pavilion’) and once again it dried out promptly and
> has been fine.
> > At the same time, I’m recalling an olive oil facility that was on top of
> a hill in San Luis Obispo County, that had wind-driven rain penetrate
> cracks in the Gunite finish on their bale walls, to the point of black goo
> oozing out the base. That’s when you know you have real trouble. They
> drilled holes and drove air into the bottom of the walls, and also put a
> layer of breathable waterproofing on the exterior of the walls. Similar to
> your case here, it was the windward side that had the worst problems, but
> rain swirling around the building caused some issues on the leeward side
> > Here are my opinions on your questions, but let me be the first to admit
> there are others who could answer these better than me:
> > 1. The photo sure makes it look like wind driven rain, and at quite an
> angle! Another 10’ of overhang (aka a porch) along that facade seems in
> order. Exactly how much moisture it takes to overwhelm a lime plaster wall
> is difficult to say. I’m recalling studies done by the University of Bath
> that placed plastered wall samples in very exposed marine climates to
> determine this. You might search for this, perhaps starting with EBNet’s
> BuildWell Library. Bruce King may be able to connect you with Pete Walker,
> or you could try to reach him directly.
> > 2. Again, the numbers aren’t so high that invasive measures need to be
> taken. I’d suggest putting some more powerful heaters on the interior, and
> aim to drive the moisture out toward the exterior. At the same time they
> should deploy tarps or some other means of keeping wind driven rain off the
> walls going forward, but let the sun and warmth at them otherwise.
> > 3. Again, my first suggestion is a longer porch roof along that whole
> facade, perhaps with some landscaping or something to break up the laminar
> wind. I suppose a deployable system of a rain screen of some sort could
> also be used. Allowing the walls to see sun this spring and summer will be
> good though. Xypex is a product that folks have applied to walls, but I’m
> more familiar with its application on cement stucco than lime, so research
> that a bit first. David Easton suggests Glaze ’n’ Seal on his earth
> walls. I believe both have that waterproofing effect while still remaining
> > As you know, both the plaster and the straw have a significant capacity
> to store and release moisture, and it seems they are doing exactly that. I
> can’t say for certain, but this being their first season they may not be
> damaged to the point of needing to be replaced, but the smell detected is
> concerning. Getting them to dry and then keeping them dry going forward is
> key, and if necessary some replacement may be needed, but I’d advise trying
> to avoid that first.
> > * * * * *
> > Arkin Tilt Architects
> > Ecological Planning & Design
> > Please Support (or Join?!) my 2017 Climate Ride (bicycling 300 miles
> from SF to SLO, June 9-13, with a fundraising goal of $5,000 to support
> Straw-Bale outreach)
> > http://support.climateride.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=
> > Thank you!
> > David Arkin, AIA, Architect
> > LEED Accredited Professional
> > CA #C22459/NV #5030
> > 1101 8th St. #180, Berkeley, CA 94710
> > 510/528-9830 ext. 2#
> > www.arkintilt.com
> > "There is no way to peace. Peace is the way."
> > — A. J. Muste
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Paula Baker-Laporte FAIA,BBEC
Econest Architecture Inc.
paula at econest.com
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